Curtains Hand #1

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see the villian taking that line with a pp such as 9,9 or 10,10. Maybe a pp lower than 8.

More often than not I think my opponent is ahead, so I'd want to make them fold on the river. I also like betting/raising on the flop to find out the strength of their hand.


>>ZIP

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet the flop and your opponent doesnt fold you are completely in the dark as to where you stand.

I doubt a riverbet would make villain fold better pairs (what are you representing?). Hero had top pair on the flop which and wants to show it down. Villain shows weakness on turn and then suddenly strength on the river, meaning he is either strong (like rivered two pair) or bluffing, the latter being reasonably likely since hero has shown so much weakness (checking three times).

[jon462]

is it normal to bother with blind steals at level 2 at the 200s? Or is this just to stick it to the other 2+2er?

[sofere]

[ QUOTE ]
he's playing poker

[/ QUOTE ]

not a good answer...we learn nothing from just writing this off as "playing poker". Every move should have a distinct reason for it. IOW if he thinks his 3rd pair no kicker is good there should be a specific explanation for that reasoning.

If villain was a 2+2er one would think that he'd be pretty tight this early in the game hence the PF steal attempt. Given that BB probably called with high cards or mid PP, the flop is okay, but not great. There's a good chance a c-bet will get picked off here as the flop looks to have missed hero's hand. The small flop bet by villain rules out an overpair. So a call isn't bad.

Check-check turn...sweet, free river card hopefully cheap showdown. I still have no clue what villain has aside from its not 99-AA.

River...check, bet 200. I don't really understand this call. I've been trying to reason it out. BB doesn't have a monster otherwise he wouldn't bet out so much. If he had a K, he probably would've bet the turn (although he might've been scared you had a whiffed AK and was trying to induce a bet). 50/50 that a jack bets out or just checks behind.

I think the only hand you beat here is air or A7, and I just don't see that happening often enough to justify a call.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]


If you bet the flop and your opponent doesnt fold you are completely in the dark as to where you stand.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. Are you assuming that your opponent calls? Perhaps if they call you don't know where you stand. Also, if the villian didn't hit this flop he may be willing to fold to a c-bet, which of course also shows where you stand.

Basically, betting or check/raising will extract more information than calling a bet.

[ QUOTE ]

I doubt a riverbet would make villain fold better pairs (what are you representing?). Hero had top pair on the flop which and wants to show it down. Villain shows weakness on turn and then suddenly strength on the river, meaning he is either strong (like rivered two pair) or bluffing, the latter being reasonably likely since hero has shown so much weakness (checking three times).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you take the line the hero does until the river and check/raise, many opponents will fold a better pair (though probably not kings).

I agree, though, that the villian is usually bluffing on this river. If this is true, however, check raising will both get some better hands to fold and bluffs to fold. It depends somewhat on what you want your table image to be like.

Also, it would help to know (as someone else pointed out) what reads there might have been on the villian.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he's playing poker

[/ QUOTE ]
The small flop bet by villain rules out an overpair. So a call isn't bad.

Check-check turn...sweet, free river card hopefully cheap showdown. I still have no clue what villain has aside from its not 99-AA.


[/ QUOTE ]


I don't see where you got these conclusions from. Do you think that villian is going to slow play an overpair such as 99?

Are you assuming that a villian is always going to reraise or fold a mid pair like that preflop to a raise that looks like a potential steal?

>ZIP

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Betting this hand (TPWK) on the flop doesnt accomplish much with deepish stacks. If he misses he should bet most flops to try and take the pot right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if he gets top pair betting doesn't do him much good, but if he completely misses then he should bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting narrows the range with which villain will continue tremendously. With these stacks, this is something you want to accomplish only if you are either very weak (bluff) or rather strong (value against the majority of his range). Since hero's hand is weakish but has some value, it's not a good idea to bet the flop and narrow villain's range down to something that crushes hero's range. The pot is not interesting enough relative to stacksize to semi-bluff at.

[Mr_J]

[ QUOTE ]
does he want to call down and show his 82 to the world? is that the image he wants?

[/ QUOTE ]

This crossed my mind. Maybe image at the table, but possibly image for BB since he's a regular.

Curtains talked in a recent thread about liking to play regulars who think they know how he plays, and that some will rarely defend their 15, 30 chip bb thinking it's not worth it, or questioning whether anyone would actually steal a pot that small. Maybe this is just a steal.

If curtains thinks that BB is a weak tight player, he'd have to give BB credit for a good hand preflop. If we are to give him credit for a hand preflop, there's not much we a beating on the river, so curtains must think this player defends more liberally. If this is the case, then what's the point of raising in the first place?

[zipppy]

How wrong is folding to the villian's bet on the flop?

>>>ZIPPPY

[zipppy]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] results? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sofere]

No, I'm assuming he's gonna bet more than 1/3 pot with 99 (which I consider slow playing).