River Decision

[closer2313]

Ive been thinking about river play alot. I thought this hand could illustrate an important concept. Ill set it up.

You are the Hero in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I raise first in on the button. Assume I am a thinking TAG like beast. Assume I know clarkmeister thm. Assume that I know you are a 2+2er and know the clarkmeister thm. You just call from the BB.

Flop is

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

You check, I bet, You call.

Turn is

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You check, I bet, You call.

River is

Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You bet, I raise, you ?


Tell me what you would do, and more importantly, why?

[pryor15]

why don't i raise the turn?

i 3-bet the river, b/c if i know that you know the theorem, then you could be raising with just about anthing (AK, for example) since i don't necessarily have the flush (which i do), so by donk betting you, i force you to think i've got less than the big A high flush. if you have J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], then i start cursing.

I consider re-raising but wuss out and call because I don't think you'd raise me w/8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or less here.

Edit: Even if you know that we both know the Clarkmeister theorem, I think raising here is foolish. I doubt you ever get a flush to fold, so if you don't have a flush you are just throwing away another BB. Without the flush you just have to call IMO and hope my river bet is a bluff.

[Jaran]

Easy 3bet. Exactly one card beats me. If you fold to my 3bet, fine. If you cap, well, fine by me. If you have the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] NH.

-Jaran

[scotty34]

Call. If I were to 3-bet, you should fold the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and raise the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] assuming we both recognized each other as solid thinking players. Raising can only cost us. This should be pretty obvious actually, but I'll give it in better detail tomorrow if there is any misunderstanding.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
Call. If I were to 3-bet, you should fold the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and raise the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] assuming we both recognized each other as solid thinking players. Raising can only cost us. This should be pretty obvious actually, but I'll give it in better detail tomorrow if there is any misunderstanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I think about it more, the decision is between call and fold, not call and 3-bet. It would depend on how well I know my opponent specifically, and to some extent, the limit we are playing. Again, I'll elaborate more tomorrow for those who don't agree.