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#1
09-29-2005, 04:41 PM
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Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
I've been getting frustrated with my mediocrity as of late. After about 1500 22 party STTs, I have about an 11% ROI. I really want to reach a 20% longterm ROI at the 22s. I know my game isn't perfect, but it's hard for me to even fathom how some people are pulling a 20% ROI at this level. I'm having trouble finding another 9% ROI in leaks, but I'm not going to give up. I feel like my bubble play is pretty solid, although I'm sure not perfect. My ITM I think could use some work. I know my levels 1-3 could use some work, as I fold pretty much every hand except AA-QQ, AK, AQ, and pocket pairs.
How much ROI do you think (ballpark figure) I am missing out on playing this tight so early? Is there really, say, 5% ROI hidden in these early levels I am passing up? Can any successful higher stakes players and/or players at the 22s (with a high longterm ROI) give me any pointers for these levels? I'm not asking for you to outline an entire strategy that I can follow ABC style, I know that's not possible. I could just use a point in the right direction. Should I be raising more with hands like AJ, AT, KQ from decent position? Should I be playing more hands like JTs, or KJ that were usually auto folds for me? I feel like my postflop play is decent atleast. How did you learn how to play the early levels of STTs? What should I be doing to improve this part of my game? Was this skillset just something that came naturally to you? What differences should I keep in mind between playing a regular ring NL game and a STT in early levels? I've tried several searches and there's just almost no talk about how to play early levels in this forum. Almost every question is about middle/late game and about good pushes and calls. 
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#2
09-29-2005, 04:57 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs.
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#3
09-29-2005, 06:35 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
[ QUOTE ]
Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs. [/ QUOTE ] lol, if you dont think 20% is doable in the 22s, how do you expect to do anything but ever lose in the 55s on up? 20% in the 22s is for SURE doable. like, not even close.. 4-8 tabling.. i can see 30%ish.. holla
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#4
09-29-2005, 06:38 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs. [/ QUOTE ] lol, if you dont think 20% is doable in the 22s, how do you expect to do anything but ever lose in the 55s on up? 20% in the 22s is for SURE doable. like, not even close.. 4-8 tabling.. i can see 30%ish.. holla [/ QUOTE ] How much would you charge for lessons? I honestly am amazed at this, well i was already amazed at you raptor, but I would really like to talk poker with you and would be willing to pay for an hour long phone conversation as you watched me play a few 33's. Is this possible?
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#5
09-29-2005, 06:45 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs. [/ QUOTE ] lol, if you dont think 20% is doable in the 22s, how do you expect to do anything but ever lose in the 55s on up? 20% in the 22s is for SURE doable. like, not even close.. 4-8 tabling.. i can see 30%ish.. holla [/ QUOTE ] How much would you charge for lessons? I honestly am amazed at this, well i was already amazed at you raptor, but I would really like to talk poker with you and would be willing to pay for an hour long phone conversation as you watched me play a few 33's. Is this possible? [/ QUOTE ] ill be honest, its prolly not the best for me to be giving people lessons.. for a number of reasons. i contradict myself a lot in things i do, but for reasons that make perfect sense in my mind, and more than likely, to quite a few others as well.. however some of these concepts, etc, are really hard to explain sometimes. i mean, itd be easy to walk you through early game, basic middle game, and perfect pushbotting, that just takes practice.. but to REALLY improve to a very high lvl and crush the small stakes games takes a whole lotta work, and im not really willing to put in the time for someone else. maybe well figure something out for a game or something.. but as of now my time is really strapped cuz of school stuff, and i like to play on occasion myself. this is a convo for pms though. holla
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#6
09-29-2005, 06:47 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
Raptor has never placed above me in an SNG. I'm proud of that fact [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
It seems I only lose to donks...
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#7
09-29-2005, 06:48 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
[ QUOTE ]
Raptor has never placed above me in an SNG. I'm proud of that fact [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It seems I only lose to donks... [/ QUOTE ] lol, how many have we played together, and are you SURE? cuz i have a lot of sns.. holla
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#8
09-29-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
I feel the EXACT same way. I know im not playing perfectly since my ROI sucks. But i have NO idea what ot change, whenever i post a hand everyone seems to agree with what i did [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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#9
09-29-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
Hmm... post some hands. Not just of the ones where you bust out, but ones where you have premium hands. While one leak could be your losing hands, another could be not extracting enough chips out with your good hands.
20%+ ROI is attainable, as I have 20%+ ROI at the $33s for over 2 years now. Others do too. Post results, and we'll try to discuss for you.
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#10
09-29-2005, 06:36 PM
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Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm... post some hands. Not just of the ones where you bust out, but ones where you have premium hands. While one leak could be your losing hands, another could be not extracting enough chips out with your good hands. 20%+ ROI is attainable, as I have 20%+ ROI at the $33s for over 2 years now. Others do too. Post results, and we'll try to discuss for you. [/ QUOTE ] 2 Years could be 100 SnG's. How many is this over? I feel like until I see soemone with >20% ROI over 10,000 SnG's I will not think that it is possible. But I am probably just a loser in denial. I agree with the OP in that I can't figure out what leaks could be responsible for 10$ of ROI. That being said I gave up at the 22's na dmoved to the 33's now I ahve over 1500 played and am at 15% ROI. I am now on a quest to get 20,000 SnGs played over the next 15 months so that I can draw conclusions from my numbers. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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