Party NLHE SNG 100+8: 4-Handed - UTG with A7

Jamie Collins · #1 07-31-2003, 01:58 PM

Top 3 pays.
Blinds are 150-300.
After posting blinds: SB has T800. BB has T150. Button has T6000.

You have T600 UTG and are dealt A7o.

Your move.

All remaining players appear to have appropriate aggressiveness. Big stack is raising frequently but not every hand. The small stacks have been folding everything.

Thanks in advance,
Jamie

You get A7.

Prickly Pete · #2 07-31-2003, 02:36 PM

I'd fold. Bigger difference in payout between 3rd & 4th than 2nd & 3rd. (I'm figuring 1st is too much of a longshot to worry a lot about now.) Not that I'd fold everything - I'd just wait for something a little stronger or until I was next to be blinded out.

You figure BB is playing any 2 cards and A-7 wouldn't generally be an overwhelming favorite. Plus one of the other 3 may pick up a hand (and the big stack doesn't need a monster to play). That's the way this wuss would play it anyway. Hope it worked out for you.

eMarkM · #3 07-31-2003, 02:40 PM

Seems like an easy fold here. Normally, 4 handed I'd raise a lone A and try and take the blinds. But, if I'm reading this correctly, you have a BB who has 150 and will have to post that in the SB on the next hand. Fold and hope he loses the next hand and you're in the money. You will be left with 250 if you don't play out of the blinds coming up. Even if the SB doubles through here, he will get the blinds again first the next round and could get eliminated there. I pretty much wouldn't play a hand unless he doubled up a couple times and overcame you somehow. I'd try and wait him out in this spot.

You don't need to make a move here since at this stage you're playing for 3rd or 2nd since the big stack has such a huge lead. The difference between 2 and 3 is not big enough to try and gain chips by raising or playing your A in this situation. Easy fold.

Copernicus · #4 07-31-2003, 03:01 PM

Unless you like giving away money, I would consider folding AA here, much less A7o.

Jamie Collins · #5 07-31-2003, 06:02 PM

Hi eMarkM- thanks for the response,

You wrote: "Even if the SB doubles through here, he will get the blinds again first the next round and could get eliminated there."

1)If no one raises, probably unlikely but possible - BB has 450 after the hand and he's still in bad shape because I can make it through the blinds if I fold all hands.

2)If BB calls a raise and loses. I'm in.

3)If BB calls a raise and he wins, I think I'm in worse shape than you feel. If I don't raise here I'm folding every hand. The big question is will I get the blinds folded to me when I'm BB next. Probably not. Big stack will raise 1/2 to 2/3 time. Will the short stacks raise if the big stack doesn't? Don't know.

I just didn't want to wait for KK or AA in the next 4 hands and then be stuck with the my next BB (when I would be all-in) deciding my fate.

But I think all-in-all it looks like a fold.

Maybe I just have a problem being passive! Must be my Limit instincts getting in the way.

Regards,
Jamie

cferejohn · #6 07-31-2003, 06:16 PM

Smart me. I looked at everyone saying fold and was completely confused until I noticed that the BB is really short. Fold away.

However, I think the 'I would fold AA' comment is a bit silly. If the BB doubles up to 900 (already has 300 in the blind, presumably will call with just about anything) you are suddenly in 4th place. I'd go all in with AQ, AK, and any pair TT or better.

I figure this gives me a better chance of squeezing into 2nd as well.

Jamie Collins · #7 07-31-2003, 07:34 PM

Big stack raised, only BB called. BB had Q9, flopped a pair and won.

I ended up getting blinded out. Nothing playable the rest of the way. 10-5o my final hand in the BB.

Regards,
Jamie

curtains · #8 08-01-2003, 12:23 AM

There are a lot of decent looking options here....

A - Call. You are doing this to do everything in your power to eliminate the BB. Now a funny situation could arise in which someone raises and you will call if the BB calls (because you will win 3rd place because you had more chips to begin the hand_, but you will fold if the BB folds, expecting you to call. This maximizes your chance of defeating the allin player, as his only chance is to win the whole pot.
Now the very next hand you and the small stack will be allin preflop if he folded the previous hand. Once again, if anyone calls, the SB will have to win the whole pot for you not to come in 3rd. If everyone folds to the SB and he ends up winning, you still have the chance to win your next allin hand and watch him try to survive another round of blinds.

If you should raise allin UTG its a problem because if someone else calls, the BB has an easy fold. If you have a monster hand like AA or the like, you should take the risk, because your chances of moving up the ladder if you win the hand, are pretty decent.

option B - simply fold preflop and hope someone else knocks him out. However this plan greatly increases the SB's chances of winning the pot.

I thought about this pretty quickly so forgive me if I made some major insight. But I dont think you have to fold in this situation....because as long as you are both allin at the same time, he would not only have to defeat you, but also win the entire pot. If you should fold and he ends up winning the hand, you are a pretty sizeable underdog to money.

Jamie Collins · #9 08-01-2003, 09:50 AM

Curtains thanks for the response,

You present an interesting option: calling.

Obviously calling is usually not desired in NL tourney play. But because of the size of the blinds and our stack size - it may be a viable play.

1) Everyone is going to immediately think,"Huh?" Does he have AA? 44? KJ?
If someone raises, BB almost assuredly drops with me having limped. I would then fold and the BB and I would both be all-in with exactly the size of the blinds. It would be totally different if either of us had T10 more than the blinds. But all-in-all I might never be faced with that situation again - 4 handed, two players all-in with the exact size of the blinds.
But if the BB called the raise -- I would call? hmmm - then
A) If the raiser sweeps the pot, I take 3rd because I started out with more chips than the BB.
B) However, if BB wins the main or the side, and I win nothing, I'm out.

2) I think the most likely scenario is neither the Big Stack nor the button would raise because they're confused by my limp and they don't want to give ammunition to the BB (who might call) or me . When one of us win, we're still not in great shape. But if the big stack or button raises and one of us win - that's a ticket to 2nd place.

So now I've limped, the big stack and the button fold - what the heck would the BB do with T150 left? Who knows? raise? check? bet the flop? check call the flop? fold the flop?
I wouldn't be putting the BB to any test however..he's got a free ride in his BB.

The other consideration is: At this point I should also be playing for 2nd place in the tourney.

Therefore, I think it's raise or fold. I'm leaning towards folding because the big stack will often raise if I fold.

Regards,
Jamie

curtains · #10 08-01-2003, 08:55 PM

Hey man, I totally didnt realize the SB had only $800 left also...that changes things a bit. I like calling for sure if Sb has more money. But anyway I think its clearly more important to ensure 3rd place than it is to get 2nd. Using this strategy you have decent chances of coming in 2nd anyway, but I think you definitely maximize your 3rd place chances.