This hand has people talking

B Dids · #1 09-25-2005, 02:45 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, CO raises, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, CO folds, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls.

River: (14.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 17.16 BB

Questions that currently exist:

Preflop: raise/fold?

Flop: raise/call?

The table was loose, but I didn't have great specific reads yet. My thought preflop was that I'm likely to have people limp behind and cold call my raise, so I don't think raising is great.

On the flop I'm calling in order to let the other two behind me call, but there's been suggestion that given my pair I should raise. My assumption was that if I raise the flop, the other two are not so bad that they're calling two cold. I'm also under the assumption that with a donk in that spot, my 4 is not good.

AL5AcE · #2 09-25-2005, 02:55 PM

I think calling preflop is good. I'd raise the flop.

#3 09-25-2005, 02:56 PM

Preflop I also just call here you've got multiway value but taking this hand to the flop for 3 bets OOP HU would suck hard.

Flop I think this is a raise. With the PF raiser directly behind you the chance that its going to get raised behind you if you just call are pretty high anyhow so I go ahead and pop it welcoming a 3 bet from the other players.

Given that you just called the flop I like the cap for value.

StellarWind · #4 09-25-2005, 02:58 PM

Raise the flop for value, to protect a possible best hand, and to drive out slightly better hands like 66.

sthief09 · #5 09-25-2005, 03:00 PM

prelfop could go either way as long as you aren't folding. I like raising to take over the pot because I think I play better with control (I compare it to driving fast on a highway. everything is behind you so you have less difficult decisions to make). limping is ok because you have a good volume hand

for the flop, with the Q on board, I like the first call. the CO only has 3 outs if he's behind, he'll never fold a better hand, and there's only one overcard for the button to draw to. I like keeping people in ehre even though you have a pair. once it's 3 bets, I think the cap is fine, though I wouldn't have a problem with a call either.

sthief09 · #6 09-25-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop for value, to protect a possible best hand, and to drive out slightly better hands like 66.

[/ QUOTE ]

in a vacuum a flop raise might be for value but he has the nut flush draw, but compared to just calling he has losing money. it is a possible best hand, but the flop is Q42 and he has a flush draw. anyone who willc ome in for one bet is drawing really slim. the PFR either has him beat or has 2 or 3 outs. the button probably doesn't have much either and he probably won't fold a better hand like 66. they are drawing slim if behind. I see now reason to drive people out with such a strong drawing hand.

B Dids · #7 09-25-2005, 03:05 PM

I think that at 3/6, in mutli way pots like this, a donk bet in that spot is a Q a vast % of the time. I think it's very unlikely that I have anything close to the best hand in this spot. I'm avidly not trying to drive anybody out here. I'm not saying that's correct, but that's my course of action.

I've said this before, but with a monster draw like this, my goal is "how can I get the most money in the pot" and calling seems to get that done here.

B Dids · #8 09-25-2005, 03:11 PM

WRT preflop:

This is a raise for me the vast % of the time. I didn't know the table really well, and nobody seemed horrible. Without a lot of guidance on how to play vs them, I felt a little more conservative.

Lmn55d · #9 09-25-2005, 03:20 PM

don't you have a chance to protect your hand from 3 outers who would probably be making a correct call considering implied odds? You make some good points though. I think this sort of "opponents have few outs if behind" thinking is why players like TheBrownEyes are able to do well with passive play.

kurosh · #10 09-25-2005, 03:21 PM

I don't know why people think a raise PF is good. The suitedness of the ace is blinding people, I think. Do you isolate with A6o here? Do you OPEN with A6o here? I just don't get it. If you're isolating a limper with A4s, why don't you open-raise A4s UTG? It would be better in terms of FE.