TPTK and hidden outs.

IIAce · #1 07-19-2005, 09:48 PM

Reads:

BB was a big fish who would call to the river with anything and fold when he doesn't hit or call with any piece of the flop so he didn't worry me much.

It was MP2's first hand on the table and he went all in preflop.

MP3 was a pretty loose player but agressive with this good hands. I only saw him bet/raise with two pair.

PokerRoom 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP2 raises 0.45 (All in) , MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.80 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.90 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks.

River: (6.90 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 11.90 BB

Flop: From my reads on him, I put MP3 on two pair A5 or A4. I don't know why I called when he raised me but I liked my call button more than my read on him. I didn't count hidden outs here...I probably should have but I think I had the outs to call him anyways. Do you know how to calculate hidden outs here?

Turn: His check could mean two things: he was either slow playing a full house or the 5 counterfeited his two pair.

River: I decided to bet the river anyways because I thought he was scared of the 5 (from my reads on him, he was agressive with his made hands) and I got raised...uh oh. I made a crying call just in case he was over-playing a pair of Aces or was raising because he sensed weakness in my turn check.

How would you have played it? Results to come.

Duerig · #2 07-19-2005, 09:49 PM

I would 3 bet the flop.

SlantNGo · #3 07-19-2005, 10:02 PM

The only point in this hand where I even came close to thinking that your hand was no good is his river raise. 3-bet that flop.

ArturiusX · #4 07-19-2005, 10:14 PM

3-bet that flop all day. This turn action made me puke. If you can't be aggressive with AK hitting a harmless flop, then what can you be aggressive with?

shermn27 · #5 07-19-2005, 10:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet that flop all day. This turn action made me puke. If you can't be aggressive with AK hitting a harmless flop, then what can you be aggressive with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

TripleH68 · #6 07-19-2005, 10:25 PM

Put simply you must start out by putting the villain on a wider range of hands.

The title of your post should be "Big Slick flops TP on a drawy board. When should I slow down?"

IIAce · #7 07-19-2005, 10:43 PM

You guys are completely ignoring my reads. when I got raised on the flop, I read my notes on MP3 and put him on two pair. I don't remember exactly what the notes had but I think he was weak passive with top pair hands. Anyways, if I had no reads on him I woulda 3-bet this flop 101% of the time. Even if I had some reads I woulda 3-bet this 99% of the time but for some reason I could just tell he hit two pair.

Assume my read was right and he had 2 pair on the flop, where do you go from there?

crovax4444 · #8 07-19-2005, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are completely ignoring my reads. when I got raised on the flop, I read my notes on MP3 and put him on two pair. I don't remember exactly what the notes had but I think he was weak passive with top pair hands. Anyways, if I had no reads on him I woulda 3-bet this flop 101% of the time. Even if I had some reads I woulda 3-bet this 99% of the time but for some reason I could just tell he hit two pair.

Assume my read was right and he had 2 pair on the flop, where do you go from there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just from the way this sounds, it seems like your being results oriented. My original advice would have been 3-bet the flop and bet the turn.

However, assuming you think he has 2-pair (or better) 100% of the time that he does this, I'd call the flop and c/f the turn when it blanked. Keep in mind, this is 100% certainty that he's got 2-pair or better.

IIAce · #9 07-19-2005, 11:29 PM

Ok, I found this guy again online just to see what the notes I had on him were:

"called a 3 bet preflop with K9o.
Raised the turn/river with two pair.
called flop/turn with A high, checked the river.
called a bet on the flop with a backdoor flush draw J high.
called all the way with flopped trips.
Likes to play A rag."

Total hands: 36
VPIP: 55.56%
PF raise: 0%

Am I justified in thinking he has two pair?

IIAce · #10 07-20-2005, 12:33 AM

The guy had A4.