Ugly, indecisive TT hand

Nick C · #1 12-23-2005, 05:08 PM

MP2 is 79/16/1.6 after 268 hands. Feel free to ignore his limp-cap. I pretty much did. (A big chunk of his preflop raises were limp-reraises.)

CO is 24/11/1 after 183 hands. CO hadn't been tangling with MP2 enough for me really to have a good idea what CO thought of MP2.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Once I saw the flop, I anticipated check-folding, but then CO just called MP2's flop bet, and I started thinking maybe he just had AJ/AT. So I decided to stick around. MP2 could easily have me beat with Q7s or something, though.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

CO is still calling, and I'm feeling stubborn.

River: (10.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls . . .

Well, so much for the AJ/AT idea. Do I overcall here?

Comments on previous streets would also be appreciated. I was lost during this one.

Gravy (Gravy Smoothie) · #2 12-23-2005, 05:40 PM

I probably let this one go on the turn once CO calls MP2's bet a second time. This is a weird hand. I definitely don't overcall the river.

Nick C · #3 12-23-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a weird hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 is a weird player.

Here's another hand with basically the same cast (MP2 is UTG in this one):

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (14.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, UTG raises, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

That hand generated some discussion in the chat box.

#4 12-24-2005, 01:10 AM

Hand One
Calling the river obviously is out of the question. Its a bizarre hand but I cant see CO calling here with a hand you beat (especially considering his pre flop action) combined with the times the donkey doesnt have the king or queen here for calling to be profitable.

I am strongly leaning towards folding the flop, if you dont fold the flop, you have to stick it through to the river ((as if you can call this flop I dont see how you can find a fold unless you see running hearts)which I just hate. The more I look at this, folding the flop is the best decision. A lot of the time I feel CO is trapping here and raising the turn.

Hand Two
Looks pretty standard from your point of view, I am guessing someone hit their straight with 62o?

Nick C · #5 12-24-2005, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand Two
Looks pretty standard from your point of view, I am guessing someone hit their straight with 62o?

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that UTG+2 had 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

In any case, he did say he had a straight in the chat box. (Someone else at the table was amazed that the hand didn't go to showdown and started asking about it.)

#6 12-24-2005, 02:45 AM

Hand 1. I fold the flop.
Hand 2. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

ackid · #7 12-24-2005, 06:36 AM

I would have a hard time playing this hand after the turn. Just because mp2 is a nut doesnt mean he dont have a piece of that flop. And the other player is calling with a piece as well.

Unless your hoping they have 66-99.

chesspain · #8 12-25-2005, 02:02 AM

I don't like any street. With respect to PF, I might just have called, unless I thought MP2 was going to fold rather than call two more. However, I certainly won't fault you for three-betting there.

However, I'm folding the flop. There are two overcards to your pair, and you not only have MP2 betting but CO calling, despite the CO having to realize that you could be winding up to checkraise a flopped monster. I think that the odds are great that you are behind already.

Moreover, I'm definately folding this turn. Indeed, especially since the flush draw just hit, I find it difficult to believe that you could actually be ahead. Furthermore, if you are behind you are drawing to only one clean out...yuck.

I won't even comment on the river since there is no way I would have ever been in that situation.

Nick C · #9 12-25-2005, 07:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to PF, I might just have called, unless I thought MP2 was going to fold rather than call two more. However, I certainly won't fault you for three-betting there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. I don't know. I thought it was an easy 3-bet. I'm up against a super-loose limper and an LP raise from a tighter player (which could be an iso-raise). I'll usually have the best hand here, and my thinking was that I should 3-bet for value. (When MP2 limp-capped, I thought, "Cool. See you guys on the flop.")

[ QUOTE ]
However, I'm folding the flop. There are two overcards to your pair, and you not only have MP2 betting but CO calling, despite the CO having to realize that you could be winding up to checkraise a flopped monster. I think that the odds are great that you are behind already.

[/ QUOTE ]

When CO called, I put him on AT/AJ.

[ QUOTE ]
Moreover, I'm definately folding this turn. Indeed, especially since the flush draw just hit, I find it difficult to believe that you could actually be ahead. Furthermore, if you are behind you are drawing to only one clean out...yuck.

[/ QUOTE ]

When CO called again on the turn, I thought, "Yep. AT/AJ." (Some hand that contains a heart is also possible, and I guess something like 88 is as well, but I was thinking narrowly.) I wasn't giving anyone credit for a made flush, though.

I was more worried at this point about the LAG than I was about the CO. The LAG could easily have some crappy king or some crappy queen.

[ QUOTE ]
I won't even comment on the river since there is no way I would have ever been in that situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ordinarily I wouldn't be either, but I thought MP2's bets were basically information-free. And, on the flop and turn, I liked the information I was getting from CO (though I would have preferred for him to fold).

I really expected CO to fold on the river blank.

#10 12-25-2005, 01:35 PM

I like the PF 3 bet. Flop and turn calls are stubborn like you said, and personally I am letting this go on the turn. I definatly don't overcall on the river.

As an alternate line perhaps, Im not sure I would take this line, but does anyone check raise this flop?