JJ OOP, ugly flop

#1 12-06-2005, 08:47 PM

live 3/6

hero has JJ UTG

hero raises, UTG+1 (tight, decent) calls, button (LAG) calls.

flop (6 SB): AK4 rainbow

hero bets, UTG+1 calls, button raises, hero ... ?

I have been fairly aggressive at this table, but have shown down almost only very strong hands. With a tight EP caller and a raiser there's a good chance I'm drawing to 2 outs, but the aggro button could be 2-betting here with basically anything. The pot is small enough to let it go but that seems really weak; 3-bet and see what UTG+1's action is? or just drop it now?

Dhani · #2 12-06-2005, 09:05 PM

fold

poker1O1 · #3 12-06-2005, 09:19 PM

defitely call and fold a non J turn. If you call and the other guy calls, plus a bet from the flop raiser, there's now $40 in the pot, giving you 7.5% equity to at least a 8% chance of hitting

toss · #4 12-06-2005, 11:03 PM

Fold, UTG's call almost makes it certain we're beat, Bttn's raise makes the decision easy.

Maybe you might think you can 3-bet and get UTG to fold an Ace, but Bttn would have to be some kinda maniac and UTG would have to be weak enough to fold.

winky51 · #5 12-07-2005, 12:13 AM

fold, just sigh and fold.

#6 12-07-2005, 06:08 AM

3-betting is the worse possible line here, in my opinion. You're very rarely ahead here, and furthermore will seldom improve your chances by 3-betting.

Calling seems to be your best option here. I'd estimate I have ~3 outs here, ~1.3 for the backdoor straight + a very likely 2 for the Js. Our immediate pot odds are 10:1, and it's highly likely UTG will peel the flop, giving us 11:1. Therefore, we need to make up 3SB on the turn to justify the call. Given the action, I think it's very likely both UTG and button will call a turn bet, and therefore we have the correct implied odds to peel here.

Its also likely button will pay off 2 BBs on the turn himself, and thus we don't have to be overly concerned with UTG folding either the flop or turn.

goofball · #7 12-07-2005, 06:17 AM

Just always fold here and move on to the next hand.

#8 12-07-2005, 06:21 AM

Maybe I was a little hasty in my post. I just realized that catching a straight redraw will likely taint your J outs on the river, since it'll put four to a straight on board. I think this will have a somewhat significant impact on your implied odds, and you're probably better of folding the flop.

Sorry for the quick change of heart. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]