Questions about the party 200 game

[fnord_too]

I've recently (~5k hands I think) decided to try out this game and work my way up the NL ladder on party and skins. So far I am down about 5 buy ins and it really has me scratching my head.

I beat the UB 1/2 game, and do ok when I sit in the 2/4 game there (not a lot of hands in the 2/4 game, but I don't feel outclassed when I play).
I beat the Poker Stars .5/1 game (trying to work my way up the ladder there, too, but I only have a small bankroll there).
I have done ok in the prima .5/1 and 1/2 game, though I haven't played much there.

For some reason the party game (full) is just thwarting me. I am not at home so I don't have PT numbers. I just can't seem to find the range in this game. I am not getting paid off much on my big hands but am getting my continuation bets on whiffs snapped off a lot.

Some questions I have are:
How often should I fire second barrels in this game?
How often do players call the flop with air hoping to take the pot away from you on later streets?
How often should I be calling the flop with air hoping to take the pot away on later streets?

I realize that all of these questions are player dependant. I am just trying to work out a framework for play in this game. For instance, at the UB 1/2 game, continuation bets work a lot, and when they don't you can probably fold to further action pretty safely, so firing second barrels is not something I have to do there often.

Additionally, I am reluctant to start making too many plays at people in this (party 200) game unless I have reason to believe they will work.

Like I said, I am befudled at this point and looking for insight into the character of the game in general. I am planning on dropping a couple of tables while figuring this out but any advice would be helpful.

One last note in this too long post: I realize I may just be running bad there. 5k hands is nothing. I just don't feel comfortable in that game right now though, and think there is a good chance that I am just not adapting to the texture of the game. (It probably does not help that I typically 6 table when I play NL, with 2 party tables, 2 UB tables, and 2 stars tables. When I say dropping some tables, what I mean is opening 2-4 party tables and nothing else until I work this out.)

[Ghazban]

You may just be running bad. I find the Party 1/2 game to be fairly weak/tight most of the time. Semibluff raising will get you more folds than at lower stakes and, if you bet at the pot 90% of the time it was checked to you in late position (regardless of your cards, the board, and the number of other players), you would probably pick up enough pots to make up for the times you get played with and don't have anything. As an experiment, I decided I'd play any two from the button if the pot was not raised (I'd either raise or limp depending on table conditions, my hand, etc., but I'd never fold). After 12K hands played in this fashion, my button VP$IP was a little over 60% but I was making a good profit both from stabbing at pots nobody else seemed to want and occasionally hitting a well-hidden straight or two pair.

Since the game is so fold-happy, value betting big hands is tough (as nobody wants to pay you off). However, just identifying the guy who will try to blow you off your hand if you make a weak lead (there's usually at least one/table in the full ring games) can get you paid off huge.

[ QUOTE ]
Some questions I have are:
How often should I fire second barrels in this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're HU after the first barrel, the 2nd will make a lot of people lay down so long as the turn card is not scary. Many people will take one off with a small medium pair on a ragged board in the hope you are just betting a missed AK/AQ. If more than one person calls a continuation bet, a second barrel is less likely to be +EV.

[ QUOTE ]
How often do players call the flop with air hoping to take the pot away from you on later streets?

[/ QUOTE ]
Rarely, in my experience. However, they might call on a draw and then bet when checked to even if the draw didn't get there. There are more turn semibluffs in this game than at the lower levels.

[ QUOTE ]
How often should I be calling the flop with air hoping to take the pot away on later streets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost never, unless you've got a good read on the raiser and there are a lot of good scare cards you could use (like on a JhTh9s flop, any Q,J,T,9,8,7, or heart could scare the villain enough that you could push him out).

[fnord_too]

Thanks! The game does seem weak tight.

The observation about people taking one off with on ragged boards is extremely important, that is something that most players do not do in the UB games. I think not firing a second barrel here has been one of my leaks. Also, it seems that check raising the turn with good to great hands on ragged boards after leading the flop is going to be something I need to do more.

I like your button experiment, I think I will try that out some.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Instead of c/r on the turn with mediocre/good holdings, can I suggest c/c turn (to induce a bluff, but control pot size) and then blocking/value bet the river? C/r lets them off easy when they have worse mediocre hands and gets you creamed when you are behind. I'd rather save my c/r on the turn for when I have a monster and think they might have something strong enough to pay it off or when I have a draw and am looking to get him to laydown something good but not great.

[fnord_too]

That sounds like a better plan. I was thinking of whacking them to encourage them to stop trying to steal my pots, but this is even better and more frustrating to the opponents. I will probably make this my standard line and c/r my variant.