9th Circuit Decision Regarding Children and Sex

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Well, here, the analogy doesn't take into account that non-consenting sex is a crime. Schools cant force students to commit crimes as that would violate civil liberties.

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True. Instead of all the kids, the teacher asks for volunteers and gets some. Is this okay? If that's still a little iffy, how bout the teacher brings in two pornstars and has them bang on the students' desks (these are 1st graders, remember). If the school claims this is "teaching" them, I don't see how this decision does not allow a parent to object. I guess it puts a lot of pressure at the very local levels, but what redress does the parent have if the school does something like the above examples I gave?

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How about ordinary tort law? Not everything is a Constitutional issue.

[jt1]

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True. Instead of all the kids, the teacher asks for volunteers and gets some. Is this okay? If that's still a little iffy, how bout the teacher brings in two pornstars and has them bang on the students' desks (these are 1st graders, remember). If the school claims this is "teaching" them, I don't see how this decision does not allow a parent to object. I guess it puts a lot of pressure at the very local levels, but what redress does the parent have if the school does something like the above examples I gave?


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Sex in public is illegal becuae it disturbs the peace. But that aside, I would say that a parent has the right to petetion, organinze, address the school board, put a referendum on the ballot, pull his/her kid out of the school, sue the school for emotional distress, etc. My point still stands, however. Ignoring the fact that your example is a criminal violation of most local statutes, I argue that if the community agreed that porn stars in school is a valuable teaching tool then that particular community has the right to hire them....especially if midgits are involved [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Because I do things that many people consider degenerate and dangerous, yet I still want to do them, I agree to let others do things that I disagree with as long as no one gets hurt. (in this case, with enough evidence, i could be easily convinced that first graders watching a live porn show is a form of emotional abuse.)

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There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children.

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I agree with this entirely. I also think the survey was a stupid idea, but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

[BCPVP]

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but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

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Shouldn't that time and place be up to the parents and not the state? This survey was given to 1st graders. Why not kindergarteners? Pre-schoolers?

[New001]

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but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

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Shouldn't that time and place be up to the parents and not the state? This survey was given to 1st graders. Why not kindergarteners? Pre-schoolers?

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It should be up to them, yes, in an ideal world. Parents can't control everything their children get access to though, and they're kidding themselves if they think they can. It shouldn't harm the kid, and it might make him and his parents uncomfortable about it, but meh. I know I was in first grade when I first heard about those "baginas" from a friend of mine, and I wasn't scarred or traumatized by it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rationalize the survey (which I think was clearly stupid), but it's really not as harmful as some people have been making it out to be. My opinion, of course.

[PoBoy321]

My question in all of these issues is that the school system has a right to determine a curriculum and determine what is appropriate to be taught. If the parents object to the curriculum, they can homeschool or send their children to private school.

What's next, parents will feel that teaching children about slavery is too detrimental to their mental health, so they have to strike that from the curriculum?

[etgryphon]

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My question in all of these issues is that the school system has a right to determine a curriculum and determine what is appropriate to be taught. If the parents object to the curriculum, they can homeschool or send their children to private school.

What's next, parents will feel that teaching children about slavery is too detrimental to their mental health, so they have to strike that from the curriculum?

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Agreed, but key here is not the issue of sex education. That is really neither here nor there. The problem is the 9th court ruling that parent to not have an "exclusive" right to the education of their children.

With that precedent, you may see homeschooling being shut down and maybe even private schooling shut down. It is a horrid ruling.

Its even questionable to the constitutionality of federally funded education. So 9th Court is dead on both counts.

9th Court needs to stop existing...

-Gryph

[BCPVP]

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With that precedent, you may see homeschooling being shut down and maybe even private schooling shut down.

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I don't think so. WI v Yoder still applies and to the 9th's credit they acknowledge the right of the parent to choose where the child is educated, but once the parent chooses public education, they cannot demand that their child not be taught history, for example, even if they find some parts of history personally offensive. I agree with that. You can't run a school if every kid needs a unique curriculum. On the flip side, this case was about a survey not related to actual educating of the children but some nebulous future program to deal with "barriers to learning". But when deciding whether the survey was appropriate or not, I suppose while I would probably be angry as a parent, as a citizen (and conservative) I'd like that decision to be made on a local level so that my opinion would have some meaningful weight, whereas if it's done by judicial fiat from the 9th circuit (or SCOTUS for that matter) there's not much I can meaningfully do to change that ruling.

Whew, that was long! I'd be interested in hearing why you think this was a terrible ruling. And I'm a little surprised this hasn't made much of a splash in the media. I mean you've got kids, sex, public education, the 9th circuit! What more drama could you need for a story? That's why I used the WND as a source because there just wasn't much else!

They dont call it the 9th circus for nothing.

[BCPVP]

Hey, I'm by no means a pinko liberal, and even I agree (and think that if you're a conservative you have to agree) with this ruling. In a way this is similar to Kelo. The court defers to the legislature (or in this case the school) instead of dictating what the law (or schooling in this case) should be. Isn't that what conservatives harp on the courts for?