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  #1  
Old 10-16-2005, 10:53 PM
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Default Help, did I butcher this hand?

This is a PS micro MTT 2+.2

Villian has played pretty tight, but likes to make large raises preflop, 8xBB or so. I felt that he couldn't have limped QQ, but that 55 TT or AQ was possible, but such a large overbet smelled like a flush draw or it could be a weaker Q afraid of someone drawing to the flush. I guess that was what he wanted me to think. However was I right in my reasoning? How can you tell if your opponent is crafty or not? This might not be answerable questions, but any comments/advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

POKERSTARS GAME #2822249157: TOURNAMENT #13543689, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (100/200) - 2005/10/16 - 22:43:54 (ET)
Table '13543689 259' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: GEA1 (8884 in chips)
Seat 2: Marlboro III (3265 in chips)
Seat 3: DoggerPA (2130 in chips)
Seat 4: Dtownokie (6257 in chips)
Seat 5: playtag (4600 in chips)
Seat 6: 300 inch KW (7550 in chips)
Seat 7: TerryK71 (7828 in chips)
Seat 8: tlo(TEO) (2321 in chips)
Seat 9: goldyfishy (4985 in chips)
GEA1: posts the ante 25
Marlboro III: posts the ante 25
DoggerPA: posts the ante 25
Dtownokie: posts the ante 25
playtag: posts the ante 25
300 inch KW: posts the ante 25
TerryK71: posts the ante 25
tlo(TEO): posts the ante 25
goldyfishy: posts the ante 25
300 inch KW: posts small blind 100
TerryK71: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldyfishy [Qh Kh]
tlo(TEO): calls 200
goldyfishy: calls 200
GEA1: calls 200
Marlboro III: calls 200
DoggerPA: folds
Dtownokie: folds
playtag: folds
300 inch KW: calls 100
TerryK71: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs 5s Ts]
300 inch KW: checks
TerryK71: checks
tlo(TEO): checks
goldyfishy: bets 1000
GEA1: raises 6000 to 7000
Marlboro III: folds
300 inch KW: folds
TerryK71: folds
tlo(TEO): folds
GEA1 said, "HERE FISHEY"
goldyfishy: calls 3760 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qs 5s Ts] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [Qs 5s Ts 7s] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
goldyfishy: shows [Qh Kh] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
GEA1: shows [4s Ks] (a flush, King high)
GEA1 collected 10945 from pot
GEA1 said, "OOPS"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10945 | Rake 0
Board [Qs 5s Ts 7s 7d]
Seat 1: GEA1 showed [4s Ks] and won (10945) with a flush, King high
Seat 2: Marlboro III folded on the Flop
Seat 3: DoggerPA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Dtownokie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: playtag (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 300 inch KW (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: TerryK71 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: tlo(TEO) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: goldyfishy showed [Qh Kh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sevens
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:09 PM
CardSharpCook CardSharpCook is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 746
Default Re: Help, did I butcher this hand?

yes. Raise PF. It will make the hand much easier to play.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Help, did I butcher this hand?

Any post flop advice? Should I have checked instead? Also, if I had raised preflop, say 4xBB, what should I do if I've got two callers?
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2005, 11:49 PM
cferejohn cferejohn is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,121
Default Re: Help, did I butcher this hand?

[ QUOTE ]
yes. Raise PF. It will make the hand much easier to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding KQs out of position with only 20x the BB is also an acceptable option. That's what I probably would have done. Then again, maybe I'm just weak.

I think you played the flop fine except for the part about calling the all-in, unless you know something about this guy. There's some percentage chance you're drawing pretty much dead, and much of the rest of the time he's got a pair + a flush draw, which means you are probably right around a coinflip. Even if he's got the ace of spades, you're still barely better than 50%. Unless you think he's capable of running a complete bluff here, I think you need to fold.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2005, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Help, did I butcher this hand?

I think you should maybe try not putting the results in your original post, you keep the suspense going, will get more replies and the replies you get will probably be more constructive.

I'm not too sure about raising preflop, you're likely to only be called by AK and AQ whilst the otherwise profitable KJ and QJ and KT will fold.

Anyways regardless of the preflop position I think you really have to fold this with a spade in your hand. As CFerejohn points out in the very least you could be up against a pair and a flush draw or two pair (QT comes to mind here).

Whilst I can see where you're coming from about thinking he might be trying to protect his hand, I'm not sure I agree with it fully.

For a start he could equally be trying to protect a small flush draw against someone drawing to a higher four card flush (I do this all the time if I flop a small flush) in which case you are practically drawing dead.

Secondly, if he is trying to protect a made hand it could very easily be a better one than you (set, two pair) or could have a better draw than you (ie queen with a spade).

The least likely possibility I think is that he's trying to protect a worse hand than you that has limited potential to improve (and don't forget you could easily lose this to some fluky two pair on the river).
A straight bluff seems unlikely and very brave here. I don't know too many players that will raise by that much a 1 suited flop that has already had a pot-sized bet made into it.

When we look at these possibilities I think we have to assume that there is a pretty high probability that we're behind. If we fold we'll still have 3700 odd chips which although not ideal is enough to survive for a few rounds. We're not pot committed and I think a fold was indicated here
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2005, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Help, did I butcher this hand?

Thanks guys for your comments and advice. I think this is a big hole in my game that I need to work on. I think I'm overexaggerating the pressure to accumulate chips which is partially responsible for me making these foolish moves. Thanks again.
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