MUST I call all-in river bet with A-high flush?

81-person turbo satellite to WCOOP is just underway (10-20 hands). No reads on anyone yet, but the table has been tight.

Is there any way I lay this down on the river? Also, was my river bet OK?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

Button (Villain) (t1525)
SB (t1595)
BB (t1540)
UTG (t1510)
UTG+1 (t1470)
Hero (t1470)
MP2 (t1520)
MP3 (t1420)
CO (t1450)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button (Villain) calls t30, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t90</font>, Hero calls t90, Villain calls t90, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (t420) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t90</font>, Hero calls t90, Villain calls t90.

River: (t690) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to t1315</font>, UTG folds, Hero ???

[mrh86]

Unless you can put him on a pair of threes or fours, you have to call.

very easy call. Possibility of a lower flush alone makes it a good call, plus 56 or a5 or just a random bluff

[Matador225]

I don't think you can assume he has a full house. There's a good chance he was betting his flush draw the whole way. But I here what your saying. It has to be pretty obvious to a decent player that you made your flush on the river and if he had a full house he might play it the way he did. Its early and you gotta accumulate, so I think its a pretty easy call.

[betgo]

I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played sir.


This is one reason I don't like playing A8s from EP, early in a tourney. Bad OP, bad.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played sir.


This is one reason I don't like playing A8s from EP, early in a tourney. Bad OP, bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir, may I have another? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I am interested in why you don't play A8s from EP early in a tourney. I thought I would be able to limp in, see if I got a flush draw (if not, probably get out), and then see if I could get the right odds to call (I think I did, with implied odds). My rationale is that most of the value in A8s is in a potential flush draw, and that it is probably +EV if you can get to the flop cheaply with it and then re-assess.

Also, you mentioned the distinction between early in the tourney v. later. I don't understand, could you explain? Thanks.

[mrh86]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played sir.


This is one reason I don't like playing A8s from EP, early in a tourney. Bad OP, bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir, may I have another? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I am interested in why you don't play A8s from EP early in a tourney. I thought I would be able to limp in, see if I got a flush draw (if not, probably get out), and then see if I could get the right odds to call (I think I did, with implied odds). My rationale is that most of the value in A8s is in a potential flush draw, and that it is probably +EV if you can get to the flop cheaply with it and then re-assess.

Also, you mentioned the distinction between early in the tourney v. later. I don't understand, could you explain? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want to get put in tough decisions for all of your chips early in a tournament. It's not theoretically proper to raise you all in on the river with the blinds that small unless he had the nuts. When the blinds are small, you want to play extremely tight and only enter pots when you believe you have a distinct advantage. I have a lot of experience with losing a ton of chips in the early rounds, and now I just instantly fold anything except pocket pairs, AQ, AK and I'll even play KQ and AJ suited if I can get in cheap.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played sir.


This is one reason I don't like playing A8s from EP, early in a tourney. Bad OP, bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir, may I have another? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I am interested in why you don't play A8s from EP early in a tourney. I thought I would be able to limp in, see if I got a flush draw (if not, probably get out), and then see if I could get the right odds to call (I think I did, with implied odds). My rationale is that most of the value in A8s is in a potential flush draw, and that it is probably +EV if you can get to the flop cheaply with it and then re-assess.

Also, you mentioned the distinction between early in the tourney v. later. I don't understand, could you explain? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want to get put in tough decisions for all of your chips early in a tournament. It's not theoretically proper to raise you all in on the river with the blinds that small unless he had the nuts. When the blinds are small, you want to play extremely tight and only enter pots when you believe you have a distinct advantage. I have a lot of experience with losing a ton of chips in the early rounds, and now I just instantly fold anything except pocket pairs, AQ, AK and I'll even play KQ and AJ suited if I can get in cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty new to MTT's, but I'm confused about two pieces of advice. Here you advocate a tight early strategy similar to SNGs, but I've often heard people say that you need to push edges and take more risks to accumulate chips early. So should you be seeing a lot of cheap flops with drawing hands hoping to hit a monster or play tight?

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to call.

Why is everyone worried about a boat? 6s5s is a straight flush and 22 is quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played sir.


This is one reason I don't like playing A8s from EP, early in a tourney. Bad OP, bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir, may I have another? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I am interested in why you don't play A8s from EP early in a tourney. I thought I would be able to limp in, see if I got a flush draw (if not, probably get out), and then see if I could get the right odds to call (I think I did, with implied odds). My rationale is that most of the value in A8s is in a potential flush draw, and that it is probably +EV if you can get to the flop cheaply with it and then re-assess.

Also, you mentioned the distinction between early in the tourney v. later. I don't understand, could you explain? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm totally clear, but when I say "well played sir" I'm talking about betgo's comment. He's basically saying "don't be scared of monsters under the bed", if you're scared to call in this situation, you might as well be scared of quads or a straight flush.