Very confusing hand

ncboiler · #1 08-17-2004, 08:33 PM

A lot of preflop action but just couldn't fold this from the SB. Was going to check raise the turn but then UTG+1 bets????? No way am I folding the river.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (25 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (21.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Sent · #2 08-17-2004, 08:41 PM

Maybe I'm too tight but Im folding this from the SB when it has been 3-bet. Position sucks for a c/r on the turn, you can't really protect your hand when people only have to call 1 bet.

What do others think????

-Sent

ncboiler · #3 08-17-2004, 08:44 PM

I agree with your thoughts on the check raise

punch · #4 08-17-2004, 08:49 PM

Iam new but i find another fight protect my chips and fold

prayformojo · #5 08-17-2004, 09:06 PM

I probably wouldn't fold this pre-flop, but I think I ought to. KJ is simply too easily dominated with this many players in a capped pot. Did you have a read on these players' preflop raising standards?

My real problem is with the flop action. If your hand is good enough on the turn to plan a check raise, why not check raise the flop when the chance falls in your lap? You have a King high flop, giving you top pair, Jack kicker, with little chance of a straight draw, but there are 2 clubs on the board. I understand checking after the pre-flop cap, but when none of the pre-flop raisers bet or raise, and the bet comes just two in front of you, this seems the perfect place to raise for so many reasons. With no action, you may have best hand. This is the ideal opportunity to protect your hand. You will be forcing three players to call two cold, and may thin out the field. This is also the best time to get information, and a 3bet back to you will tell you you are likely dominated by a better king or beaten by pocket aces.

The turn does not help your hand in the least. Why give a multiway pot the chance to draw out on you?

ncboiler · #6 08-17-2004, 09:53 PM

The best read came from the button who was a loose raiser so his 3 bet did not concern me much. UTG+1 seemed like a pretty solid tight player so his turn bet did concern me.

bakku · #7 08-17-2004, 10:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The best read came from the button who was a loose raiser so his 3 bet did not concern me much. UTG+1 seemed like a pretty solid tight player so his turn bet did concern me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling this preflop is horrible.

Vern · #8 08-17-2004, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The best read came from the button who was a loose raiser so his 3 bet did not concern me much.

[/ QUOTE ]

SSHE specifically warns (page 85) about KJs against a re-raise and while you claim you did not respect the Button's re-raise, what about the original raiser? You claim UTG+1 is a solid tight player, and he is raising UTG+1 and you are gonna call this one because you have a small discount and the table is loose, but your discount disappears, UTG+1 could cap it and the pot will get so big you cannot get away. I may have weak tight tendancies, but playing a likely dominated hand, out of position for 2.5SB is not my idea of comfortable. I fold this pre-flop and wait until the Button raises an unraised pot and then 3-bet with looser than normal 3-bet holdings to isolate him. You have great position at the table, but not for this hand.

Vern

ncboiler · #9 08-17-2004, 10:32 PM

Thanks for all the replys. Obviously I played this way to loose but the loosness of the table made me want to call it. I'm still learning but I consider myself fairly tight apart from this posted hand.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (25 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (21.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB
Main Pot: 25.50 BB, between UTG+1, CO, Button and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (25.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 shows 9s 9d (one pair, nines).
CO shows 9h Kd (one pair, kings).
Button shows Jh Jd (one pair, jacks).
Hero shows Js Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 25.50 BB.

btspider · #10 08-18-2004, 12:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm too tight but Im folding this from the SB when it has been 3-bet. Position sucks for a c/r on the turn, you can't really protect your hand when people only have to call 1 bet.

What do others think????

-Sent

[/ QUOTE ]

he wanted to check-raise the expected CO first bet which would present 3 players on the turn with 2-bets to them. once UTG+1 bets out, there really is no way to protect his top pair here.