Folded KQ on the button?

suprblah · #1 10-06-2005, 05:51 AM

3 Handed Home game on the bubble. Blinds 8/16. SB wants to go home and should go all-in with anything. BB is weak tight preflop.

Hero (T100) on the button with Ks Qd
SB (T40)
BB (T220)

Being first to act, I was pretty sure that SB would push all in with anything, quite likely with any K or Q. And BB with a huge chip lead would call with a relatively large ranges of hands. After a bit of thought, I folded my KQ. SB went all in with Q4 and BB called with something like 78, I can't remember exactly. My KQ would've been the best hand.

So, after the BB took the 40 chips that were supposed to be mine, it occured to me that I could've pushed all-in and taken SB's chips with a strange sort of isolation play by going "UTG all-in." Was I right to fold the button and let the small stack tangle with the big stack? Or should I have pushed all-in from the button, and let the SB call me and the BB fold, cuz in the end, those 40 chips woulda helped me out for heads up.

bluefeet · #2 10-06-2005, 09:18 AM

Not exact, but I took a stab converting your blinds/stacks.

8/16 = 75/150 (roughly * 10)
stacks * 10

Assuming....
SB's calling range: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q9o+,Q5s+,JTo,J8s+,T9s
BB's calling range: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+

You push with...
22+,A2+,K9o+,K6s+,QJo,QTs+,JTs

KQo is way +EV @ +1.8%

PUSH!!

Isura · #3 10-06-2005, 10:58 AM

What is the payout structure? Is this a tourney or a freezeout cash game?

BadMongo · #4 10-06-2005, 11:21 AM

You can't do the $EV calculations without the payout structure!

bluefeet · #5 10-06-2005, 11:40 AM

Yeah, I know...I made some gross assumptions. I was bored waiting for a meeting at work.

Pay 1, pay all......can't not push this holding 6bb's IMO.

suprblah · #6 10-06-2005, 06:42 PM

Started as 6-handed tournament for a $5 buy-in (yah we're cheap lol). So 2nd place gets $5 and winner gets $25.

patrick dicaprio · #7 10-06-2005, 07:06 PM

i dont see how you fold here, most times you have the best hand and you neednt go all in. if you raise to 50 or so and BB misses the flop you will likely take it down no matter what and if you hit a K or Q so much the better. just cant fold the likely best hand just because of some convoluted logic about how it cant be right.

Pat

lastchance · #8 10-06-2005, 07:41 PM

Poosh it.

suprblah · #9 10-06-2005, 07:43 PM

Well, my logic as the middle stack on the bubble was to let the large stack self-destruct when he goes all-in with a large range of hands. Is that not a common bubble strategy?

And I can see pushing all-in with the KQ but I can't see betting 50 and having both the SB and BB come in for a family pot. I would be pot-commiting myself if they hit their rags.

patrick dicaprio · #10 10-07-2005, 06:30 PM

the amount to bet really depends on the oppponents. the reason to bet 50 would be where this is enough to get them to fold. the principle is that you bet only what is needed to do the job, if this is all in then so be it you wont be in terrible shape most times here. this has to be better than folding.

Pat