Do Christians (or Jews) Need God to see the Future.

[TorpedoBreath]

Humans construct simulators to predict future events vith varying applications like recoverability of oil/gas reserves, hurricanes, hockey pools, etc.

Most who believe in God assume he's infinitely more knowledgeable of simulators than humans. Well maybe they haven't thought about it, but if you ask them they'd all say yes.

So even for those who don't equate omniscience with knowledge of future should concede that if He needs to know, he'll just build a kickass simulator.

[DougShrapnel]

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An omnipotent god unconstrained by logic can make it so that it never existed in the first place. Remove the constraint of logic and it just gets silly.


[/ QUOTE ] It is because of the mircales that people believe in god. Limiting gods power in anyway included not being able to remove it's own existance, does in fact remove the omnipotence. Can god remove his existance? yes. It's not really that difficult to see that god does not need to obey any sort of logic. How is this much different than the virgin birth? Or the divine-trininty. And speaking of the HS, what has he been up to lately? To much father, punishment and God's will, to much son, forgivness and sacrafice. But not enough holey spirit, good will and deeds to all.

[NotReady]

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An omnipotent god unconstrained by logic can make it so that it never existed in the first place. Remove the constraint of logic and it just gets silly.


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I don't claim God is unconstrained by logic. He is logic. He isn't constrained by human reason. Human reason is constrained by God's reason. He is the Creator. We are the creatures.

[imported_adhoc]

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God's omniscience did not mean he could do literally everything.

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That does not require a thread to prove, since that is definitionally not omniscience, which means the quality of being all-knowing. cf scientia vs potestas.

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If the only reason a certain religion assumes God can see the future is because it assumes that God is omniscient

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"Religious scholars" (notably those other than the "religious scholars" on this board) have for a long time defined the concept of God such that it is outside of time. eg Augustine, De Confessione XI. For the short version you can read the second sentence of that chapter. I'll let others elaborate.

Time is a quality that can be applied to discussions of matter and space. God is not considered to be a material thing. On the contrary, matter is considered by theologians to be a contingent property while God is considered non-contingent. Therefore qualities attributable to time or space are not attributed to the idea of God. As understood, God does not anticipate future events because it is not believed he exists in "the present," or in any state in which it is possible to distinguish another time as being "the future." The omniscience attributed to the idea of God is not a quality which is dependent upon a linear concept of time. Your premise is misinformed because it assumes this, and the conclusion incident to it is not sound.

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this little atheist may have done more for religion than Aquinas, Calvin and Spinoza combined

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You are clearly interested in philosophical subjects but this kind of hubristic remark is offensive in light of the simple mistake it follows. I would recommend more reading about systematic theology before making other comments like this. There are many good books availible online or at your local library. Alternatively you can post anonymously on other forums about religion where these statements don't embarass your publishing company.

I'm glad I was able to do more for humanity than Mother Theresa, Albert Schweizer, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and James Woods combined by making this post.

[David Sklansky]

"but this kind of hubristic remark is offensive"

When I read that I looked to see how many times you have posted and was not surprised to find it was under 100.

[David Sklansky]

"And yes, Christianity and Judaism would fall apart without that power. This is because God has made scriptural promises to preserve peoples, individuals and the church as a whole, not only from being destroyed by other men but also by the power of the Evil One. Thus if he lacked the power to carry out His promises, His word would be void."

When I read a post like this I truly wonder what is going on in people's minds. What on earth does this have to do with God not having a perfect ability to see the future? He still has the power to keep promises.
(By the way the fellow who said that he could give up this magical power and still actually have it by using his mind to build a perfect simulater, would be right save for quantum randumness. In other words if God wanted to give up this one power only, he had to create a universe with such randumness.)

[Bigdaddydvo]

David,

In believing that God is the "Alpha and Omega", the beginning and the end, Christians believe that God transcends time and space. He always was, and always will be. Unfortunately, this is a spiritual understanding outside the capabilities of our human minds. I know I don't understand it, which is why it falls into the realm of an article of faith.

[imported_adhoc]

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When I read that I looked to see how many times you have posted and was not surprised to find it was under 100.

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OK, now I really am going to stop reading this forum

[chezlaw]

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When I read that I looked to see how many times you have posted and was not surprised to find it was under 100.

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OK, now I really am going to stop reading this forum

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Doesn't your reaction kind of prove his point?

Stick around there's good stuff here.

chez

[BluffTHIS!]

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"And yes, Christianity and Judaism would fall apart without that power. This is because God has made scriptural promises to preserve peoples, individuals and the church as a whole, not only from being destroyed by other men but also by the power of the Evil One. Thus if he lacked the power to carry out His promises, His word would be void."

When I read a post like this I truly wonder what is going on in people's minds. What on earth does this have to do with God not having a perfect ability to see the future? He still has the power to keep promises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read what preceded that paragraph of mine?