There's a third time for everything

[creedofhubris]

Tommy:

What sort of ROI are you looking for on those chips?

In a game where there are constant $200 preflop raises, you're going to have to take gambles now and again; you can't wait for aces.

I'm as nitty as they get in this forum and I would jump at the chance to put my 3K on the line here.

[cero_z]

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I'm as nitty as they get in this forum and I would jump at the chance to put my 3K on the line here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true, Tommy, he is. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Your post seems to indicate that you had no specific read that this guy was exceptionally strong; you just said you weren't calling without the nuts when a guy bet 3000 into a nothing pot. That's not good enough, and in terms of the info you provided, this is a spot where I'd be very inclined to make that type of call, which I also would absolutely hate to make in general.

In fact, I laid down KK pre-flop to one reraise in the Bellagio 25/50 game (I'd link the post, but I can't find it just now). In that hand, I opened UTG for 200 in a 10-handed game, got a caller, and then a very good player pushed about 6000 into the pot. I knew that the good player viewed me as very tight, and I figured he "knew" I had a big hand, just hoped I had KK, and pushed his AA. You could make the argument that he could be pushing there with any ace, thinking that someone so tight would fold everything but AA, but I disagree. I just don't think people are willing to bank on other people laying down Kings before the flop (riverboatking's awesome bluff with A4 a while back notwithstanding). This is even more true when you're dealing with a relative stranger.

[Justin A]

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He folded aces for different reasons. People play poker for different reasons than to maximize EV.

-Jason

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This is like in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, when they're riding in the glass elevator and there's all sorts of random stuff going on around them. The TV kid says, "why is everything here so pointless?"

Charlie says, "It doesn't have to have a point, it's candy."

[DcifrThs]

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"You should maximize every EV edge you have in a cash game..."

That is a meaningless sentence to me because I am unable to know the EV's of my decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

true tommy, very true.

but you do know ranges. you can estimate whether the EV is >0 fairly well given your experience. + you knew the other guy would call if you called, giving you info and better odds to make up for some of the variance you have to take to put in 3k.

further, ive read you say that you can't underplay a hand one round and then fold the next round to action b/c nobody can put you on that hand.

you limped. agro raised. another agro 3 bet all in that initial agro raiser. there's about 3.2k in the pot. even without the other player calling, do you expect to win about 50% of the time by the river? 33% if the other one called, which you knew he would. i trust your reads.

based on this information, we can estimate, not know, our expectation. did you have another 3k on you?

would this decision, if it cost you 3k this time, affect your future play from those players that "aren't going anywhere?" (gain you action probably b/c you finally put money in and dont have to expose yoru hand if you lose, but thats pretty irrelavent based on your description of these folks) will you play worse if you lost?

if you answer "yes" "yes" "no" then i vote call. im there for money.

Barron

[Andrew Fletcher]

That post by riverboatking literally changed my poker life.

[Jason Strasser]

Can i get a link?

[jkkkk]

Sick.

[ggbman]

Riase preflop. Since you didn't, CALL! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ObnxNole]

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I'm not going to *CALL* three thousand out of nowhere into a nothing pot without the nuts.

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The pot is $3300, far from nothing. If you haven't seen this main raiser go all-in for a huge amount preflop with AA then you have to make this call. This looks more like a smaller pocket pair and most likely AK type hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that it what it looks like but I have been completely pimp slapped by this same play when a guy moves all in p flop. Both times it's happened to me at the 2k games on party and both times the guy had Aces. Without a really good read i think it's an easy fold

[Yeti]

Tommy, I think you are great. Your posts are well-written and entertain me.

Regardless of that, this is a boring thread. And anyone trying to justify this play needs to pull their finger out of their ass.