$.25/.50 Did I have the odds to call straight draw?

[ltb]

cap the flop when? you want him to check/call 2 cold and then cap when it's 3-bet?

even if so, how is it standard to go for a check/raise on the turn if, according to you, he's capping the flop?

[bozlax]

Even at a loose table, a UTG or UTG+1 raise indicates a certain level of hand strength. Not to mention that the fact that the TABLE is loose doesn't tell us anything about the RAISER (lots of TAGs play at loose tables). So, even at 9:1, in the absence of other information, playing an offsuited one-gapper with no high-card value is a touch loose.

[Benoit]

[ QUOTE ]
Even at a loose table, a UTG or UTG+1 raise indicates a certain level of hand strength. Not to mention that the fact that the TABLE is loose doesn't tell us anything about the RAISER (lots of TAGs play at loose tables). So, even at 9:1, in the absence of other information, playing an offsuited one-gapper with no high-card value is a touch loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with 9 to 1 pot odds, don't I just need a 10% or better chance to win to make this a good call? Sorry I haven't looked but I would imagine that with 5 players, even if one player had AA and the others had combinations of things like Ax and QJ, that I would still have at least a 10% chance plus added implied odds for if I hit against the loose callers.

I'm actually not trying to say I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just curious about calling a 2 bet from the BB in other situations as well as I normally call them. Like if I'm heads up with the SB who two bet PF, I will normally call because even if I am behind I'm getting 3 to 1 on my money, so I just need a 25% chance to win to break even.

Have I been going at this the wrong way? Seriously, please enlighten me.

Yeah preflop is fairly debatable, i lean slightly towards the call at a table this loose postflop. in game i probly fold it though.

Flop you shouldnt think your just chasing, think in terms of equity. You have way more than 20% here so pump the pot as much as possible. Bet, 3 bet, cap.

When you take the initiative on the flop the rest of the hand plays differently.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even at a loose table, a UTG or UTG+1 raise indicates a certain level of hand strength. Not to mention that the fact that the TABLE is loose doesn't tell us anything about the RAISER (lots of TAGs play at loose tables). So, even at 9:1, in the absence of other information, playing an offsuited one-gapper with no high-card value is a touch loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with 9 to 1 pot odds, don't I just need a 10% or better chance to win to make this a good call? Sorry I haven't looked but I would imagine that with 5 players, even if one player had AA and the others had combinations of things like Ax and QJ, that I would still have at least a 10% chance plus added implied odds for if I hit against the loose callers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You make a good point about your equity. Against AA and 3 random hands, 97o has 12% equity. The problem with that calculation is it assumes you're going to the river regardless. Are you really continuing on a K62 flop just to hit running T 8? Of course not. What do you do on the flop if it's 9-high? What implied odds do you have then?

Playing 97o vs. a preflop raise puts you in all types of tricky situations - especially multiway. I don't think anyone here is trying to say it's a horrible call that no one should ever make. It's just a bit loose.

[Benoit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even at a loose table, a UTG or UTG+1 raise indicates a certain level of hand strength. Not to mention that the fact that the TABLE is loose doesn't tell us anything about the RAISER (lots of TAGs play at loose tables). So, even at 9:1, in the absence of other information, playing an offsuited one-gapper with no high-card value is a touch loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with 9 to 1 pot odds, don't I just need a 10% or better chance to win to make this a good call? Sorry I haven't looked but I would imagine that with 5 players, even if one player had AA and the others had combinations of things like Ax and QJ, that I would still have at least a 10% chance plus added implied odds for if I hit against the loose callers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You make a good point about your equity. Against AA and 3 random hands, 97o has 12% equity. The problem with that calculation is it assumes you're going to the river regardless. Are you really continuing on a K62 flop just to hit running T 8? Of course not. What do you do on the flop if it's 9-high? What implied odds do you have then?

Playing 97o vs. a preflop raise puts you in all types of tricky situations - especially multiway. I don't think anyone here is trying to say it's a horrible call that no one should ever make. It's just a bit loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you're probably right when I think about it in that case. With trips 9s I might not want to push it too much since one of the callers might have had a 9 with a better kicker, etc. So in the end those implied odds suck if the only thing I can hit is a straight or better before I push it.