2 Hands: Not aggressive enough + Too aggressive?

sexdrugsmoney · #1 07-20-2005, 07:43 AM

Guys if you'd be kind enough to give me advice on these hands (especially the second one!) I'd appreciate it.

First hand I'm not sure if I was aggressive enough, 2nd hand I think I may have been too aggressive. (I feel like puking ... literally)

FIRST HAND

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___raises___calls

4th Street - (27.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

5th Street - (17.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (21.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (25.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___raises
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls

Total pot: (31.50 BB)

Results: <font color="white">
Main Pot: $66 | Rake: $3

Seat 3: [ Qh Qs 8d 2c 2s 5d Qc ] [ a full house, Queens full of twos -- Qh,Qs,Qc,2c,2s ]

Hero: [ As Ac Jc 9d 4s Js 3s ] [ two pairs, aces and jacks -- As,Ac,Jc,Js,9d ]</font>

SECOND HAND (excuse me while I puke)
(Beermoney came to my table and asked where all my chips went ... here is the scene of the crime)

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (7.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (6.75 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises

6th Street - (26.75 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises

River - (46.75 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___raises
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (57.75 BB)

Results: <font color="white">
Main Pot: $131 | Rake: $3

Seat 1: [ 7d 3s 4d 3d 3h Ts 5d ] [ three of a kind, threes -- Ts,7d,3s,3d,3h ]

Seat 6: [ Th Tc Jd 3c Td Ac Jc ] [ a full house, Tens full of jacks -- Jd,Jc,Th,Tc,Td ]</font>

bigredlemon · #2 07-20-2005, 09:35 AM

First hand, I'd play it the same. By the river, he's representing a very strong hand (a hand that beats trip jacks,) but you have to make a crying call.

If i'm feeling frisky, I might raise again on 5th to buy a free card on 6th and check behind him if I don't pair up, and bet if I do. That way, you'll likely get him to bet the river with a lower two pair, where you can raise if you've made aces up, or call/fold depending on how conservative he is.

2nd hand:
The J can be completing with anything here. There's no overcards behind him that isn't almost very dead. I'd raise to see where I'm at. On fourth, no one has anything so throwing him some rope is good. On 5th, It doesn't look like anyone has caught much so I might slowplay it even more. If you cap here, you're representing a pair and a flush draw as your most likely hand, so you probably won't get much action at the river unless someone makes a hand that beats a flush, so I might raise it and flat call the 3bet to keep pretending that's what I have. If you don't hit a spade on 6th, you'll likely get 4BBs into the pot. If you think they might cap and call with you, I like capping of course.

On 6th, despite all the strength you've shown, he's still capping with you. You're showing a possible straight and flush, so I'm tempted to believe seat 1 has at least trips and very likely a filled boat here, so I'd like flat calling a 3bet.

River: Seat 6 is likely raising with a broadway straight here but I think you have to call two here, and call a 3bet but not a cap. Looks like seat 1 didn't fill by his flat call. Sucks that you've lost the hand, but if you lose so infrequently with trips that it makes you puke, that's got to be a good sign. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bartholow · #3 07-20-2005, 01:07 PM

Mostly these are just bad beats, it happens.

1st hand looks completely fine, where did you want to be more aggressive?

2nd hand, a raise on 4th would be okay because it actually disguises your hand, though usually you will cost yourself action if you hit another spade. I would definitely slow down by 6th street though.

Roland · #4 07-20-2005, 01:26 PM

I play the first hand the same.

Second hand, I fold on 3rd unless this guy has a history of raising with nothing all the time.
Both raising on 4th or waiting till 5th is fine.
On 5th street, it gets interesting. You have to at least consider 43433, even with a trey dead. So unless this guy is a total idiot, I’d slow down right there. Then again the guy in the middle probably has two pairs or just one big pair, so capping it isn’t all that bad either - you should get a decent chunk of every bet he puts in that pot.
On the river, I’d just yell “[censored]” as loud as I can and call.

Hamlet · #5 07-20-2005, 01:56 PM

Everything looks fine except that you should have folded 3rd on the second hand. You're calling to play a three-way pot with 996 against a probable pair of Jacks. You caught perfect on fourth, but the Jacks still had 3 chances to redraw on you, and they did.

southerndog · #6 07-20-2005, 02:28 PM

SDM, You're my new favorite poster here, that is why i'm coming out of retirement.

take these words of wisdom:

In the second hand...

Fold Third

any live pair kicks ass at .5/1. This is a much smaller ante game.. in fact, the ante is the same size but the bets are 4 times larger.

sexdrugsmoney · #7 07-20-2005, 10:56 PM

Cheers for the replies guys. (and thanks for coming out of retirement for me!) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

It seems I have alot to learn.

I'm currently reading 7CS4AP and I guess my hand (9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) would have been playable had it been an over-kicker or any of these:

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

?

Cheers,
SDM

Roland · #8 07-21-2005, 08:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm currently reading 7CS4AP and I guess my hand (9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) would have been playable had it been an over-kicker or any of these:

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The first two are definitely playable, since clubs are completely live.
I wouldn’t play the second two though - hearts are somewhat dead.

sexdrugsmoney · #9 07-21-2005, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm currently reading 7CS4AP and I guess my hand (9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) would have been playable had it been an over-kicker or any of these:

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The first two are definitely playable, since clubs are completely live.
I wouldn’t play the second two though - hearts are somewhat dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roland, I'm pretty suprised. All the books I've read say 2 other of your suit is ok. TOP says you still have a 15.8% chance to make the flush. (5.32-to-1)

Emery says you are a great player so maybe I should follow what you do and don't chase the flush if there is more than one suit out.

Have you found this practice has increased your winnings?

Cheers,
SDM

soultwist · #10 07-21-2005, 03:42 PM

Well, one thing in this situation is that you only have a 2 flush and not a 3 flush like in the TOP example (the 15% one). I try my best to fold those hands as well, half the time I succeed.