A couple marginal hands...how should I play them?

Bankuri · #1 09-15-2005, 09:07 AM

I'm in the midst of a downswing (my first long extended one), and I've noticed a major leak. It doesn't show when things are running well because my marginal hands improve to good hands, or the hands I'm up against don't improve against me. But when the draws don't come and the opponents suck everything out on me, I notice that I'm leaking tons of money on these plays (obviously, I'm leaking money even when I'm running well...just didn't notice it as much).

So, a couple of hands from a recent session to demonstrate what I'm talking about, and hopefully generate some discussion on how these hands should be played. Since I never seem to post any really interesting hands, I'm pretty sure that means I'm not even good enough yet to notice an interesting hand when I play one. This is not a good thing. Hopefully these aren't stupid hands.

Hand 1: SB is reasonable so far. Played a few pots showed only one hand down where he cold called a turn raise with second pair.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Ok, I'm opening the pot with a crappy little offsuit broadway. Raise it up and see what happens.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero folds.

Well, I should likely figure that one of the blinds has an ace to defend their blind, but I take a shot
figuring if they don't they'll fold. I get raised and bail. I'm pretty certain the fold is good, but
was the bet just spewing in this smallish pot?

Hand 2: Again, BB hasn't played many hands. Been aggressive from the button once before. Made laydowns to bets on the flop and turn.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Ok, time to open another playable hand from MP. When I did this I thought perhaps this was one seat too early (would rather do it from late MP on), but the table was kind of tight (a little later I stole the blinds from the button and co on successive hands) so I thought I could get it to the blinds without a call anyway.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Ok, here I go spewing chips again?

Turn: (3.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 3.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad 4h (high card, ace).
MP2 doesn't show.
Hero has Qs 9s (high card, queen).
Outcome: BB wins 3.25 BB. 

I was in check/fold mode from the turn on without improvement. Should I take another shot (like when the third heart falls on the turn) or would that just be continued spewage?

deepsquat · #2 09-15-2005, 09:20 AM

Hand1: standard, good.

Hand2: no way im raising this from MP or hi-jack spot in FR unless this is a very tight table with tight blinds.

Bet this turn, u have an OESD and fold equity. I would consider checking this only vs a tricky or overly aggro opponent as i want to be seeing a river here but a c/r would bring about great anger.

@bsolute_luck · #3 09-15-2005, 09:48 AM

hand #1 is interesting because i'd play this way with any pocket pair too postflop (not preflop). so i'd probably call here figuring i could have 6 outs and getting 9:1 to call here.

hand #2 is played fine. i don't like betting that turn because any heart is calling, your OESD is tainted and the only way to win on the river is to bet again and hope A-high folds (possible but the chances he has something else is too high for the times you're called and lose).

the questions about the hand are result-oriented. again the times you get c/r or your bluff is called well outweighs the times you win this pot on a bluff.

Thoth · #4 09-15-2005, 09:49 AM

Hand 1 looks fine to me. I see so many players call from the blinds with any 2 that there's no way I'm going to give them credit for an ace.
Hand 2 I would probably fold preflop, but I can live with a raise at a passive table. I would fire again at the turn though. He only needs to fold it once every 3 times. I fold to a c/r.

jrz1972 · #5 09-15-2005, 09:52 AM

Hand 1: 100% standard. When you steal-raise and get it HU, you should bet the flop 100% of the time. You don't even need to look at the board. Edit: Absolute is right that a flop call would be reasonable, especially if villain is aggressive.

Hand 2: Again, the flop bet is 100% standard. You should also bet the turn; maybe villain will fold, and if not you have a bunch of outs.

imported_The Vibesman · #6 09-15-2005, 10:00 AM

Hand 1 I might call on the flop and re-evaluate on the turn, it's possible villian is making a play with a pocket pair or even a 3, and figures it's unlikely you have an ace since two are on the board. I'd fold (or check) the turn if I didn't improve.

Hand 2, I'd bet the turn as well, and check behind on the river if called. BB could call on the flop with something as small as a pair of 6's but would find it harder to call on the turn with that.