Problems with flopping a single pair

Joel_Fish · #1 05-01-2005, 03:41 PM

I'm new to poker (only 1k hands online or so) and I really don't know how to play these single pairs. I know people want reads, but it was less than two orbits at the table when both of these hands occured.

***Hand 1***
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, SB calls.

I'm thinking raise or fold, so I raise to narrow the field (maybe even get out a weak ace). If I'm raised, I figure I'm probably behind, and since the pot is small it'll be an easy check/fold on the turn if I don't improve. If I'm called by someone other than the SB... well, I don't know.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB folds.
See, and this is my problem. I wasn't raised on the flop so I think I'm ahead, and I figure that if I'm not ahead, someone will show me. I was the agressor on the last street, so again betting out seems reasonable.

River: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB
Okay, I'm really confused about playing the river in this sort of situation, and when in doubt be aggressive, right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Okay, maybe not, but that's why I'm asking. Seriously though, what should I be thinking on the turn and river?

***Hand 2***
Okay, I'm embarassed to post this hand because I'm sure I'm spewing chips on the river... *sigh*
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Weeee! Top pair, moderate kicker that's higher than two cards on the rainbow board.

Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, SB calls.

The board pairs, but it's a four. If you have it, you better convince me. But there's no aggression, so I figure my hand is good.

River: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Okay, SB wakes up on the river, which is terrible for me, because all I see is top two pair on a board with no straights or flushes, and I doubt anyone has a 4. I considered TT, but there's only one way he could have that. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the cap was too much, but what about the raise?

Final Pot: 13 BB

Heh, as you can see, I'm still baffled by river play. Time to read SSH again. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cold_cash · #2 05-01-2005, 03:48 PM

Hand 1: I'd just fold the flop. The pot's small and you have second pair with an Ace on the board. If an Ace is out, which it probably is, it's not going to be folded. Playing this hand this way against uknown opponents on a regular basis would be akin to setting your money on fire.

Hand 2: Your river play couldn't be worse; just call. If he's bluffing he's likely to fold, and if he's winning he's likely to raise.

Welcome to the forums.

PayTheSnucka · #3 05-01-2005, 04:31 PM

Hand 1 - on flop you have no hand and no draw

Middle pair when an ace on board is no hand. With 4 callers, its not a bad assumption that at least one of the callers of your raise (remember that MP1 called cold) has an ace and the other has a diamond draw.

When you raised, what hand were you trying to represent? A5 or 55 are about the only hands I could put you on and if I have diamonds, I know I can beat you and if I am in SB, I now have odds to chase it.

thesharpie · #4 05-01-2005, 05:14 PM

Raise hand 1 preflop.

Joel_Fish · #5 05-01-2005, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Middle pair when an ace in on board is no hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that IF no one has an ace, I'm probably best, and no card can come that will give someone a better single pair than mine. Even up against 3 other players, there's only a 33% chance someone has an ace, and if they have AT or better I would expect them to reraise because they don't want a diamond draw to stick around either.

People with low broadway cards are getting terrible odds to cold call, and if I get lucky and reduce the field to HU against a flush or broadway draw, I'm going to make it awfully expensive for him to draw out on me.

Five or more players on the flop, and I would have folded no problem. Similarly if the 5 had been a 9 or better.

[ QUOTE ]
When you raised, what hand were you trying to represent?

[/ QUOTE ]
I only raised on the flop - and I was trying to represent any big ace, and make draws expensive. If anyone showed any aggression, I would have dumped my hand.

Joel_Fish · #6 05-01-2005, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise hand 1 preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahaa! you found an error in my SSHE starting hand chart. Thanks!