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  #1  
Old 02-21-2005, 11:46 AM
MexKrax MexKrax is offline
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Default Should I bet this river?

MP1 is very loose-passive. Other players are also loose passive, not that that really matters here.

I chickened out betting the river when the third spade hit, was this a good move or weak tight?

If MP1 raises on the river do you fold or call?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (9.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero???

Final Pot: 9.25 BB
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2005, 11:49 AM
einbert einbert is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

Yes. Bet this river and call a raise. Against a good player you should probably either check/call or bet/fold this river, but here you have to bet/call. You can't miss out on the value the times you have him outkicked or he has middle pair or something, and you just can't trust really bad players enough to fold 10BB pots to them for 1BB. You must bet/call.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2005, 11:58 AM
KingOtter KingOtter is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

Definitely bet here on the river. A loose-passive here will call down with a 4, 6, or K. Or even a straight draw. Or something completely illogical.

KO
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2005, 01:44 PM
VTDuffman VTDuffman is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

Loose-Passive isn't enough of a read. You have to have observed hands with said player in them to really know whether to bet this river or not. Have you seen Villan showdown with an obviously inferior hand? If he's drawing and missed will he fold to a bet? This is what you need to know.

Even loose passives will chuck a hand on the river for one BB if they were drawing and didn't hit, so you need to know if he will call w/ only a 4, 6, or 8. Some L-Ps will, and some won't.

Against an unkown LP, I check/call this river. If I know he'll showdown an 8 or worse, I'll bet.
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2005, 02:08 PM
gvibes gvibes is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

[ QUOTE ]

Against an unkown LP, I check/call this river. If I know he'll showdown an 8 or worse, I'll bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet against an unknown LP. My perception of a typical LP is one that will call down with TPBK, second pair, or a pocket pair somewhere in there.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:31 PM
memphis57 memphis57 is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

IMO, check-call is the only way to go in the absence of a read that strongly suggests a flush. Checking rather than betting saves a BB if there is a flush, but also encourages him to bet with nothing since you led up now, hence the call.

In the absence of indicators to the contrary, the odds of two random cards that you haven't seen both being spades is only 4% (10/45 * 9/44). Now the fact that MP1 has been calling with something raises those odds somewhat, but think of alol the other cards he could be calling with. I'd put the odds of a flush under 50%, far below the 90%+ you would need to justify not calling one more bet.
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:45 PM
hate hate is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

He's LP, he'll call with anything, and LPs more often than you think will check through with nothing rather than bet a bluff. I don't like the check/call line here at all. Easy value bet.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2005, 09:07 PM
LoaferGee12 LoaferGee12 is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, check-call is the only way to go in the absence of a read that strongly suggests a flush. Checking rather than betting saves a BB if there is a flush, but also encourages him to bet with nothing since you led up now, hence the call.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice IMO. You must bet here. Do you have any idea how many hands here the LP will call with that you have beat. Pretty much any pair at all (whether it be a PP or part of the board). Most of these pairs this villain will simply check right behind you if you check, thus missing you a bet.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2005, 10:03 PM
hate hate is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

I just wanted to mention that checking hands like this is one of the big differences between .5/1 and 1/2. You can get away with this at .5/1 because bad players are just hideously bad, but extracting the most value out of players at 1/2 is probably the biggest lesson I'm still learning.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2005, 10:13 PM
tytygoodnuts tytygoodnuts is offline
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Default Re: Should I bet this river?

[ QUOTE ]
Loose-Passive isn't enough of a read. You have to have observed hands with said player in them to really know whether to bet this river or not. Have you seen Villan showdown with an obviously inferior hand? If he's drawing and missed will he fold to a bet? This is what you need to know.

Even loose passives will chuck a hand on the river for one BB if they were drawing and didn't hit, so you need to know if he will call w/ only a 4, 6, or 8. Some L-Ps will, and some won't.

Against an unkown LP, I check/call this river. If I know he'll showdown an 8 or worse, I'll bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting a really good read on a LP before you can value bet? You need a really good read NOT to value bet IMO.
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