When to fold in this large pot?

Borodog · #1 09-29-2005, 03:40 PM

No stats on any players in the hand.

I felt like folding the turn, but used the excuse that I closed the action to call. One the river with TPTK, I convinced muself I can't fold this large pot for 1 more bet, even though there was essentially no hands left for the aggressor that I thought I could beat (I could tie an ATs in the wrong suit maybe, but that's about it).

Fold the turn? On the river is this a standard call, a peace of mind call, or burning money?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB
Main Pot: 17.25 BB, between BB, MP2 and Hero.

hobbsmann · #2 09-29-2005, 03:55 PM

You have MP2 crushed here everytime so overcalling really doesn't mean anything. As for actually being ahead or not I tend to err on the side of showing down TPTK against an unknown even with the kind of action that has taken place up to this point. If you were going to fold the turn would be a very bad place as you likely have 5 outs to improve to the best hand and there is a ton of money in this pot.

brettbrettr · #3 09-29-2005, 03:57 PM

If anywhere, the river. Oh, and I don't really like your flop raise too much. I guess it may be ok three handed, but when guys 3-bet form the blinds in a multi-way pot they're usually pretty [censored] serious.

Borodog · #4 09-29-2005, 04:06 PM

That's my problem. I raised the flop for information, got it, and promptly ignored it by call-calling.

brettbrettr · #5 09-29-2005, 04:13 PM

Raising for information sucks. Oftentimes raising for value or for free card or whatever will net you info, but on its own merit raising for info sucks. In this hand, he 3 bet pre-flop in the blinds which should tell you lots. If you knew him to be a pretty aggressive player then, sure, this could easily be a value raise because he's auto-betting the flop. He isn't auto-3-betting tho. In this case, I think you should def fold the river.

Borodog · #6 09-29-2005, 04:45 PM

Agreed. Thanks for the input.

TheHammer24 · #7 09-29-2005, 06:59 PM

If MP wasn't stuck between you and Villian 3-betting the flop to protect your hand is favorable in my opinion. In this specific instance, I don't know, maybe calling the river isn't bad, but it would be better iwth reads.

Pog0 · #8 09-29-2005, 07:38 PM

Looks like you're losing in this spot most of the time, but I can't think of any other way to play it.

#9 09-29-2005, 07:42 PM

I don't really like the flop raise. You're not going to protect your hand at all, and you are just going to slow down a hand like AK and get three bet by AA or KK. I would just call all the way down.

I wouldn't fold the river against an unknown I think you will win this often enough to show a profit.

The Legend · #10 09-29-2005, 07:53 PM

I believe if you read the 3-bet pre-flop section in HPFAP, it recommends calling down when a good flop comes when a preflop 3 bettor bets on the flop. This is because you want to encourage him to bluff with ak, while he makes the least off you with JJ-AA. You can't really raise to protect against mp1 and mp2, so you can let the BB bet the turn for you.

By bloating the flop you gave the other two guys better odds to call on the turn. You don't worry about the 3-bettor since you are either beaten or encouraging him to bluff (and you may get an a or t and draw out).

So , I would call flop, call turn if no kq or j falls, and call river if heads up no matter what, or probably if 3-way and a k q or j falls, maybe fold 4-way if a k,q,j falls. Thats what I'd do at least.