QQ - Standard?

[Messy Harry]

Is this a standard laydown at this point? Villain was tight and aggressive.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

[cold_cash]

I think the turn fold is good.

You could probably save half a bet and fold when he 3-bets the flop though.

[A_C_Slater]

You should be capping with this preflop. It's the 3rd best hand possible! You can also better evaluate what his bets mean on the flop. If he bets into after capping then you know he has a premimum holding and isn't just aggressively defending against a perceived CO steal.

But the way you played it preflop I would want to see a showdown with this hand. Raising to gain information is no good now. You should have gotten that information preflop. Your fold on the turn is fine given the previous action. I don't think he's 3betting without at least a King.

But I would have opted to not raise the flop at all and called down to the river. Unless, an ace came then I might consider folding. JJ-88 are potenital hands in situations like these.

[cold_cash]

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You should be capping with this preflop.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly; I missed it the first time around.

[Messy Harry]

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You should be capping with this preflop.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly; I missed it the first time around.

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I thought I was gonna hear about the lack of the PF cap as I was reading over my post...and I did!! Advice taken. Thanks.

[Shillx]

I'm calling down straight away. He is defending his blind and he might not have the hand is representing. He could easily have something like 77 or Q9 or whatever. TAG's will sometimes do this to take control of the hand so that they can move you off a better hand on the flop/turn. Don't let this happen to you. Take a stand with your queens.

[PayTheSnucka]

The fold on turn is obviously a good one - but what about the flop call? Its an interesting problem to analyze.

If you believe in your read then Villain is about 90% to have AA/AK/KK/TT and 10% of having JJ.

You are getting 11-1 to see the turn. If Villain has AA/AK/KK/TT then getting your Q will win 3 of the 4 hands - lets call that a 3% of catching the card to win the hand. If Villain has JJ then you are a 95% favorite to win.

EV = .9 x (11*.03 - 1*.97) + .1 x (11*.95 - 1*.95) = .464

The breakeven probability of Villain holding AA/AK/KK/TT in order to fold the 3bet is 95% - anything less is worthy of a call.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
The fold on turn is obviously a good one - but what about the flop call? Its an interesting problem to analyze.

If you believe in your read then Villain is about 90% to have AA/AK/KK/TT and 10% of having JJ.

You are getting 11-1 to see the turn. If Villain has AA/AK/KK/TT then getting your Q will win 3 of the 4 hands - lets call that a 3% of catching the card to win the hand. If Villain has JJ then you are a 95% favorite to win.

EV = .9 x (11*.03 - 1*.97) + .1 x (11*.95 - 1*.95) = .464

The breakeven probability of Villain holding AA/AK/KK/TT in order to fold the 3bet is 95% - anything less is worthy of a call.

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Don't forget 99-77, KQ, AQ, AJs, ATs. These are also some possible holdings in this situation, no?


Of the above hands how many here would 3bet a solid players CO open raise from your BB? I'm doing it with 99-88, KQ, and AQ.

Of course, after the flop 3bet you can eliminate the AQ.

[Messy Harry]

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I'm calling down straight away. He is defending his blind and he might not have the hand is representing. He could easily have something like 77 or Q9 or whatever. TAG's will sometimes do this to take control of the hand so that they can move you off a better hand on the flop/turn. Don't let this happen to you. Take a stand with your queens.

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Thanks for the advice, Shill. How would you proceed here without any reads?

[aK13]

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I'm calling down straight away. He is defending his blind and he might not have the hand is representing. He could easily have something like 77 or Q9 or whatever. TAG's will sometimes do this to take control of the hand so that they can move you off a better hand on the flop/turn. Don't let this happen to you. Take a stand with your queens.

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Thanks for the advice, Shill. How would you proceed here without any reads?

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Check/call?

I definitely agree that this guy probably assumes you're blind stealing and have nothing, so he's firing away.

On the other hand, the typical approach is to call the raise, and check/raise the flop...