Trying to steal on the turn, mistake?

Fishlips_Jones · #1 03-22-2005, 06:49 PM

Reads
UTG+1 is so loose she will call a flop bet with nothing but a Q high Backdoor flush draw.

UTG+2 seems generally loose passive.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (3 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Responses encoraged

Fishlips

jba · #2 03-22-2005, 06:59 PM

I never stone cold bluff when playing party 1/2.

I never stone cold bluff 5 players when they've all seen the flop and turn. Somebody's hit something. any PP, any six, any three, any ace, any heart probably calls you here.

There's not really any money in the pot...what's the use?

AngelicPenguin · #3 03-22-2005, 08:03 PM

Heads up this is probably fine, but against 5 I wouldn't bother. Besides, the pot is tiny.

cmwck · #4 03-22-2005, 08:04 PM

There would have to be a greater than 25 percent chance that all players will fold for this bluff to be profitable. This clearly isn't the case in your hand.

PayTheSnucka · #5 03-22-2005, 08:08 PM

In addition to what has been said, the board makes it unlikely that nobody is on any type of hand. If your read was that your opponent will call very loosely, then what gave you the idea that you could steal this pot from them?

MagicFlea · #6 03-22-2005, 08:22 PM

one more thing to think about... you didnt bet from LP on the flop, so there's no way they're going to buy that you have a good hand. The only time I make this play (i.e. check flop, bluff turn after it checks around) is from EP with max 2 opponents, since you might convince them you were going for a checkraise or something.

The points about 5 opponents and a tiny pot I agree with totally

detruncate · #7 03-22-2005, 09:14 PM

You're not very likely to be ahead, and this is a terrible spot to bluff. Small pot. 5 opponents, at least 2 of them loose/passive. Coordinated board. Badness a plenty. Save your money.

A posting tip: cut off the HH at the decision point. The river action is superfluous and sometimes taints your responses.

Fishlips_Jones · #8 03-23-2005, 02:11 AM

Regarding the number of opponents critique, I see your point. I cannot get them ALL to fold. Their checks on the flop and turn looked to me like they were either just as scared of the flush as I was, or they were trying to make their flush cheaply. Therefore, let me bet and get rid of them. If I get raised, I fold; and if I get called, I check/fold the river.

Regarding the "pot size" critique, perhaps I am taking SSHE too literally, but 6 handed or more preflop is when I should beging to consider it a "large pot". (p 321).

There's something off about my play in general that this hand is representative of, I must meditate on it.

Thanks

Fishlips

wabe · #9 03-23-2005, 06:47 PM

Pot size should be based on the money within the pot, not the number of players to the pot. 3BB on the turn with 6 people is a small pot.

If there was a diamond on the flop, you could make a case for a semi-bluff here. Taking a stab with 5 loose passive players, this small pot, and not betting the flop is iffy at best.

For those of you with the mad skillz: if this is representative of his play, what is a leak he needs to close? Bluffing against loose passives? Trying to steal small pots?