All in with AQs from UTG+1 I get too much action. - Page 4

derick · #31 08-03-2005, 01:47 PM

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I just tried .50/1.00 for the first time tonight!
I've more than doubled my $20 buy in about ten hands ago, by picking off a pure buff and making a continuation bet.

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It sounds like to me you have some serious bankroll management issues.

First you're too scared to buyin the max at a .25/.5 table and now you're playing .5/1? Good lord dude... you really need to settle down and get some bankroll management or else you're going to be dealing cards soon [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

derick · #32 08-03-2005, 02:14 PM

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Hello my 2+2 Mentors!

I'm not sure if my thinking is correct on this hand, please comment.

I've just moved up to the .25/.50 NL game from the .10/.25

I've been finding this table quite profitable. I've bought in for $10 I've just doubled up and then lost a little back.

Reads:VP$IP/PRF/AF

MP2 21.25/11.25/13
MP3 55.26/10.53/1.33
UTG 81.82/36.36/2

Hero 18.75/8.63/2.95

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) converter

MP3 ($11.70)
CO ($51.05)
Button ($45.95)
SB ($44.50)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($51.70)
Hero ($21.95)
MP1 ($19.50)
MP2 ($129.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $4.5, MP3 calls $4.50, 4 folds, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $2.

Warning bells go off in my head when the MP2 reraises me!

But 2 other players calls so I call for two more dollars.

I'm thinking to myself, "My hand plays well multiplayer since I'm suited and I'm getting good pot odds, but I'm probably not the favorite to win ... Lets see the flop."

Flop: ($18.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets $5, 

UTG has shown down some really weak hands, I'd like to play heads up against him I see that MP2 (the re-raiser has a Went to SD of 15% so I see if I can push him off that hand. MP3 is kinda loose so I wouldn't mind if he stays in.

So I push all in...

Like it?

Hero raises to $17.45, MP2 raises to $107.75, MP3 calls $7.20 (All-In), UTG calls $42.20 (All-In).

I didn't want this much action.

Turn: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($198.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $198.35

comments.

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Hello again my 2+2 Mentors,

I was wrong!

Much of the analysis I said earlier was wrong/flawed.

Thanks to you all for pointing this out to me! It took a while for this to sink in.

Working through this hand has given me an epiphany in my NL play.

My epiphany:

I play NL like a sucessful *limit* player.

The decisions I make in this hand are wrong because I'm playing like a good little *limit* player.... bad move!

Things I did wrong in this hand and what I learned!

1. I overvalue my hand and raise with AQs UTG+1 to isolate the weak UTG player.

Early position AQs isn't all that strong in NL. It has immense potential to cost you your stack by making the second best hand to AK.

2. I called the preflop reraise.

Yes I was getting 8 to 1 odds to call as I pointed out but I was getting horrific reverse implied odds. I didn't take this into account. This is more of my *limit* thinking.

3. I overvalued my TPGK hand

Top pair 2nd kicker isn't all that great a hand in NL like it is in limit. Top pair good kicker isn't a hand to play hard with from early position. Certainly not for your whole stack.

4. I played from early position.

Position is much more important in NL than limit. Trying to make moves to isolate weak players is tough from early position. In limit position is worth an extra bet. In NL it's worth an extra bet too, but that bet can be the size of your stack.

5. There are probably other points that I may be missing.

Thank you to all the people who posted such good advice. You guys are great!

derick

P.S. Thanks for being patient with me, I now can see how silly some of my earlier thoughts in this post are.

IggyWH · #33 08-03-2005, 02:42 PM

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Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

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I don't have a problem with the 40 buyin thing, but others here might. What I do have a problem with is you not buying in full. Simply put, you're playing scared. You're worried you're going to get outplayed so you put less money on the table and that is playing scared.

If you think you're getting outplayed, move down. There's no shame in that. You crushing some lower level is a lot better than you playing scared at a higher level.

Now I'm going to contradict myself from what I said earlier but now I do have a problem with the 40 buyins. Get that up if you want to jump up levels, so when you do and get outplayed early (or even have a bad swing early), it's a lot easier to digest.

You really handicap yourself with less than max buyins. If you get deep in a hand, you're pretty pot committed early. If you happen across that monster, you're not getting paid nearly enough for it.

derick · #34 08-03-2005, 03:27 PM

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Thanks for your advice,

You're right you know, I'm dumb just taking a shot at .5/1 when I have huge holes in my game/understanding. I think I need poker playing skill more than I need bankroll management skill (I have over 40 buyins)

I just saw 50% players seeing the flop (on Stars) on this table and thought I'd take a shot at .5/1.

I buy in the minimum so I can adjust my stack size to that of the weakest players, rather than just buy in for the max. This helps me avoid getting outplayed postflop by the better players if they have big stacks (usually the case with the better players.)

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I don't have a problem with the 40 buyin thing, but others here might. What I do have a problem with is you not buying in full. Simply put, you're playing scared. You're worried you're going to get outplayed so you put less money on the table and that is playing scared.

If you think you're getting outplayed, move down. There's no shame in that. You crushing some lower level is a lot better than you playing scared at a higher level.

Now I'm going to contradict myself from what I said earlier but now I do have a problem with the 40 buyins. Get that up if you want to jump up levels, so when you do and get outplayed early (or even have a bad swing early), it's a lot easier to digest.

You really handicap yourself with less than max buyins. If you get deep in a hand, you're pretty pot committed early. If you happen across that monster, you're not getting paid nearly enough for it.

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You mean play more than 2 streets before you're all in? :-)

*shudders* :-)

Here's my reasons for buying short, I'm not saying they make up for the handicaps you mention above.

I had been buying in short so I could clear the bonus on Stars (min .25/.50 required to clear bonus quickly) and play with the weak players. Just having better starting requirements is enough to kill weak players while you wait for them to do something really stupid.

Buying in for $10 on the .25/.50 lets me clear the bonus quickly, play weak players who have the same stack size as me, "pass under the radar" of the good players and avoid getting outplayed postflop.

All that being said I'm going to try to buy in for full tonight. I've got to learn to play postflop sometime.

40 buyins may be a little too small for the .50/1 game since I kind of suck. 80 buyins for the .25/.50 game should be enough.

derick