Have I lost my mind? Kinda long.

[Mackerel]

Hi All,

Been busy and haven't had much time to post here, but this hand happened earlier this week and generated quite a bit of discussion after the fact.

$10-$20 NL home game (I don't usually play in this game, and it's maybe a little bigger than I'm really comfortable with FWIW). I've been in the game about 2 hrs and it's been an unusal game. Villian on my immediate left is the big stack (~ 8k). I have never seen him before. He's been limping and calling raises a lot pre-flop (but not raising much himself), and been very, very aggressive post-flop (raising, reraising and check-raising maybe 75% of the hands). He's been pushed off a couple of hands, and made an idiotic score when he pushed with A3s on the turn w/AK53 onboard and spiked a river 3 to snap-off AK.

He's been pretty much running over the table which has gone into kind of a weak/tight mode. I've been getting crappy cards for the most part, and haven't really asserted myself yet either. I've raised maybe 4 or 5 times pre-flop, and won all of them with no contest except for one where I raised PF w/JJ, villian called, I autofired on an AKx flop, he came over the top and I mucked. Therefore, I'm guessing that he reads me for weak-tight.

When this hand comes up, I'm on the button with a slightly below average stack of just under 3k and AQo. 4 limpers to me. Usually I'd raise substantially here to clear out the sh#t hands, but I've raised and got no callers the last 3 hands in a row, and I'm worried that somebody will suspect I'm getting in there with crap and play back at me hard if I raise again, so I decide to just limp along with my AQ. Mistake?

Anyway, villian calls in the SB, BB checks and we go 7 handed to the flop. Pot $140

Flop A59 rainbow.

Checked to me, I bet $120. Villian calls, all others fold.
Pot $420

Turn 2 of 4th suit

Villian checks, I check behind with the intention of calling any reasonable river bet.

River Q

Villian pushes. WTF???!!!

$2800+ into a $420 pot?????? I go seriously into the tank.

If he's got me beat, why this idiotic bet? Wouldn't he want to win something? Does he expect me to call with anything less than a monster? Against anybody else at this table, this hand hits the muck faster than you can say "nice hand", but I just can't figure out this move (I do consider that that's the point of it). I think and think and try to pick up something from him (no luck, he's like a statue) until somebody starts talking about getting a clock for this game [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Then I say call.....

What do you think? Am I nuts? I still don't think of myself as a very strong NL player, so all comments and criticisms welcome.

[bunky9590]

against the player you described, I call that pretty quickly, god bless him if he has a set. I think two pair is more likely and you have the boss two pair.

[gomberg]

Well, you've seen him push w/ a non-lock two pair hand... was it an overbet or a pot sized bet in that hand? Other than that, you induced a bluff from an aggressive player who's seen you fold to post-flop aggression and you didn't raise preflop. I think you've got odds to call with all that information, so I like the play. I like all streets in general.

As for preflop, your limp is fine. AQ isn't that great, and it doesn't sound like you have control of the table or anything, and you already have position, so see a flop before putting too much money in.

[shag]

I think calling a bet like this depends mostly on your opponent. Against the player you are describing I think you played it fine. Gutsy call but the right call. Sucks if he's got a set but I don't see that overbet with a set, but who knows. Hope it worked out for ya.


shag

[DVO]

Look at it from his viewpoint. These are the signals you sent:

Pf= limp. "I don't have much, but it's a family pot."

Flop= checked to you, you bet ~90% of the pot. "I caught a piece of this, you guys are weak, I'm taking it down." Or " I have zippo but will bluff."

Turn = checked to you, you check. "Let's just check this down, I don't feel like bluffing again / what I have is good enough for a small pot showdown."

And now, the guy makes a huge overbet at you on the river.
There are no flush draws, and a straight is remote.

Like you said, from a strong player, it's a different story . But from this guy....man, with top two, I'm calling.
esp since he views you as weak-tight.

In this scenario I think you'll win the majority of time.

[Mackerel]

Thanks for the input guys. At least I feel a little better now. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Well anyway, he showed me 55 and then lectured me about my "bad call" as he was stacking my chips. The general consensus around the table seemed to be that I must have been crazy to call. I didn't post this as a bad beat story though (don't call the damn BB narcs on me!), I just wanted to know if people who play better than me thought it was that bad. I kicked myself all night for losing almost $3k in a hand I'd only invested $140 in. Oh well, I just left and went and got drunk and played $50 NL on one of the Party skins. I'm thinking I need to find a smaller live game, [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] $3k in one hand is still pretty painful to my little br.

Edit - I know, technically not a bad beat anyway, since I never had the best hand, but still....

[pho75]

He thinks he has the winning hand and is taking advantage of his wild image. Since there is no way he could have put you on AQ, the range of hands that he could have that you beat outnumber the ones you don't by more than 2-1 (i did the math). You had to call that.

By the way. At the exact moment you made your call, there were 99 other guys around the world making the exact same call under the exact same circumstances. 70 of them won their hand when villian turn over his "winning" two pair. You just happen to be in the group of 30 that saw a set instead.

[technologic]

you mean the 29 others?

[RED FACE]

I do this all the time and I loose big because of it. Just because opponent is bad or just because I think I have a good read on opponent I call this huge bet and usually get killed.

Just wait till you have the real goods and if he's bad or if you have him well read you'll take his money no problem.

limping pre with AQo vs 3 limpers is fine imo as long as you mix it up occationally.

[TurkeyBreast]

I think he knew exactly what the situation was. The turn check screams AQ and when the Q river came maybe the villan even saw a little reaction out of the hero. If I'm the villian I'm thinking like this... Hero thinks I'm a little crazy and probably realize that I think he's weak tight. I know hero has some big cards but I can safely put him off of AA and QQ because he would have raised PF so if I jam all in with my 55 he might call me with a hand like AQ and otherwise I made a great image play. I personally think the villian was thinking on a higher level and made an excellent move.