A simple question : for those who want to outlaw abortion

[zaxx19]

No, not at all. The crime would be the deletion of human life. The fact that "tracking" that life would be harder in the case of abortion than in the case of Nicole Simpson shouldnt matter.


E.G. The murder of small children might be harder to detect also....logically does that mean we cant legislate laws in order to protect small children?

[lastchance]

Better question:
What are the punishments for an abortion? Is this a serious crime? Is this worth 5+ years in jail, as with any normal murderer?

Are the police going to spend a week trying to solve abortion cases?

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[ QUOTE ]
Better question:
What are the punishments for an abortion? Is this a serious crime? Is this worth 5+ years in jail, as with any normal murderer?

Are the police going to spend a week trying to solve abortion cases?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes now that is a hard question!

[QuadsOverQuads]

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Yeah QoQ I really don't understand your confusion here. Please explain your opinion further.

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My confusion is that you apparantly want abortion to be illegal, but you aren't willing to go into even the slightest detail about how you intend to enforce such laws.

Every time I ask for details, you either dodge the question or you try and change the subject.

I asked if you wanted the state to start monitoring pregnancies. You said no, people wouldn't accept that.

So I asked if you intended to prosecute women who seek abortions. You wouldn't answer. (But if abortion is truly murder, then both soliciting the act and delivering the victim to the killer would certainly constitute both conspiracy to commit murder and acting as an accessory to murder, wouldn't you agree?)

I also asked you to explain which "particular freedom" outweighed the "right to life" of the unborn (since you implied that this is why you wouldn't expand police powers to make such laws effective). But then you said that no such freedom outweighed the rights of the unborn, at least in your view.

So, yes, I'm confused -- because your rhetoric doesn't jibe with your proposed solution.

You want to make something illegal, but you admit that nobody would accept the police powers necessary to enforce such laws. You say you don't even want to expand those police powers because it would interfere with our personal freedoms, but then you turn around and say that no freedom supersedes the rights of the unborn.

So this really leaves us with just two possibilities : either you will be satisfied with purely symbolic laws, and will go no further; or you are being patently dishonest as to the police powers you will ultimately seek. Since you believe that abortion is a full-blown genocide of the unborn, I simply do not accept that you intend for its criminalization to be purely symbolic. That leaves us with option #2: you are consciously misleading people, leaving out the "hard-to-sell" parts of your agenda (for now) so that you can get your way on Roe before you move on to the next step in your agenda.

Show me where I'm wrong.


q/q

[lastchance]

Then answer it. :P

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QoQ I am not in neither a law making body or a law enforcement body. I don't know the details of how many laws are enforced does that mean I am forbidden from supporting those laws. I(we)have instead elected and hired peope to determine these specifics for me (us) abortion would no different.

Law making/enforcement bodies/agencies would determine the best means to do this and then we as a people would adjust our desires based on the outcome.

The government doesn't track sex, yet is still able to prosecute and punish some prostitution. Abortion would be no different.

[lastchance]

Come on, this is pretty lame. Abortion would be enforced the same way we enforce racketeering, or copyright laws, if society wanted it that way, but if not, then society would enforce it through active investigation.

Pre Roe days didn't have a stringent police task force on abortion. They shut down most abortion clinics and went on their way.

If it was obvious there was an abortion clinic, it would be shut down. If it was really obvious a woman had an abortion, she would be arrested, though without a body, it would be insanely hard to prosecute on such cases, and no one would want to anyway.

So, basically, it all depends on how serious a crime abortion would be. You can enforce differing degrees of seriousness on a crime, and it depends on how serious a crime abortion would be, which is why my question is answered before yours.

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Then answer it. :P

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My own values? Yes they should be. If everyone agreed with me then abortion would become illegal after the first trimestor as I believe this compromise balances the protection of life while still leaving the woman plenty of time to maintain her freedom. The only execption would be in those cases where a reasonable medical determination could me made that proceding with the pregnancy puts the mother's life/health in undo harm. Things like mental health would not qualify but not being able to be pregnant again would. This would be done through a court ordered process. ie the mother would go before a judge seeking the court order allowing the termination of pregnancy.

after that point I would consider and want it treated no differently than the mother who kills her newborn 2 days after birth.

[lehighguy]

Yes, you persecute the woman. I thought that was implied.

We have laws governing investigations. Subpenoes, miranda rights, you know the things that govern criminal investigations.

[lehighguy]

If you really believe a fetus is a human being, you should use the same standards as murder/manslaughter.