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#3
11-29-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
i had no problem with the hand, i just found it interesting because it was played (:::gasp::  a little differently. [/ QUOTE ] Why the pissy mood? Nothing in this hand is interesting. If you're going to play KK this way on the early streets, the turn is an instacall. Your hand basically plays like bottom set here. If you'd call with bottom set (and I'm about 100% certain you would), you call with KK. 
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#4
11-29-2005, 11:25 AM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
Pusher (MP) is not crazy, just average bad. Overcaller (CO) is absolutely horrible (90/44) preflop, postflop, hell hes bad at sitting at the table. [/ QUOTE ] If both players are that bad, you made a pretty big mistake by not reraising preflop.
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#5
11-29-2005, 11:36 AM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Pusher (MP) is not crazy, just average bad. Overcaller (CO) is absolutely horrible (90/44) preflop, postflop, hell hes bad at sitting at the table. [/ QUOTE ] If both players are that bad, you made a pretty big mistake by not reraising preflop. [/ QUOTE ] maybe its just me, but i win next to zero big pots after putting in a 2nd raise pf (unless it happens to be AA v KK and we know a 40pfr's range is way bigger than simply big pps). even maniacs know that a reraise = a big hand in this game. the majority of the time i reraise in this situation i lead the flop and its folded. is the deception worth the risk? i dont mind it and am perfectly comfortable with it. once again, maybe its just me.
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#6
11-29-2005, 01:13 PM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pusher (MP) is not crazy, just average bad. Overcaller (CO) is absolutely horrible (90/44) preflop, postflop, hell hes bad at sitting at the table. [/ QUOTE ] If both players are that bad, you made a pretty big mistake by not reraising preflop. [/ QUOTE ] maybe its just me, but i win next to zero big pots after putting in a 2nd raise pf (unless it happens to be AA v KK and we know a 40pfr's range is way bigger than simply big pps). even maniacs know that a reraise = a big hand in this game. the majority of the time i reraise in this situation i lead the flop and its folded. is the deception worth the risk? i dont mind it and am perfectly comfortable with it. once again, maybe its just me. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, I never play it this way, but then again, usually my table sees me re-raising with all sorts of garbage before this, so no one ever believes me. That said, I understand switching things up a little (although I'd be more likely to do this against good, not bad players). That said, once the flop comes what are you waiting for, an Ace to come and kill your action? I say put in a big raise on the flop, and then get the rest in on the turn.
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#7
11-29-2005, 01:27 PM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pusher (MP) is not crazy, just average bad. Overcaller (CO) is absolutely horrible (90/44) preflop, postflop, hell hes bad at sitting at the table. [/ QUOTE ] If both players are that bad, you made a pretty big mistake by not reraising preflop. [/ QUOTE ] maybe its just me, but i win next to zero big pots after putting in a 2nd raise pf (unless it happens to be AA v KK and we know a 40pfr's range is way bigger than simply big pps). even maniacs know that a reraise = a big hand in this game. the majority of the time i reraise in this situation i lead the flop and its folded. is the deception worth the risk? i dont mind it and am perfectly comfortable with it. once again, maybe its just me. [/ QUOTE ] Reraise with more than just AA-KK then against a 40% preflop raiser. Make the raise big enough so that villain is making a mistake by calling, and more importantly, don't give him implied odds by overplaying 1 pair after the flop. Not losing big pots is just as important as winning them. Just my 2 cents.
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#9
11-29-2005, 09:18 AM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
[ QUOTE ]
If CO is so bad why not reraise preflop and isolate him preflop.. Going 4 handed with KK is always a mistake if you haven't raise preflop. I wouldn't be surprised if MP has 22. [/ QUOTE ] yeah, it sure would make a lot of sense to open push with the best hand when a [censored] player has raised the flop and will bet again on the turn and potentially trap the SB (me) so i can get both their stacks. i mean, seriously.
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#10
11-29-2005, 10:07 AM
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Re: KK unimproved, facing a push and a call
If you are happy with your pre-flop and flop play (which is questionable at best) then I think you played the rest of the hand fine. You are definitely way behind and probably drawing to 2 outs but you are getting almost 5-1 to call the turn.
Others have mentioned pre-flop so I will focus on the flop. With a bet and a raise you know that your stack is going in if you call here (and you are most likely way behind). You either need to push or fold because you aren't folding on the turn.
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