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#41
11-16-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
[ QUOTE ]
But you have call, and SB bet on the flop. I'm sur he has a better Ace, the SB won't bet with 3 players behind him with K-K. And we won't capped préflop with A-10, so again, you have to fold. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think it's a sure thing he has a better ace and even if he does Hero has 4.5 outs (3 jacks and a BDFD) so he can peel and see the turn. On the turn, a check is very good. If you bet, he's folding an inferior hand. I don't think he'd fold AQ. If you bet and are raised it sucks. Maybe you can snap off a bluff if he bests the river. If he checks the river, just check behind. It's not worth a value bet. 
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#42
11-16-2005, 12:53 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
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Turn: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> TheMainEvent checks, Hero checks. [/ QUOTE ] What's your reasoning for checking the turn here? Free card? Afraid that you'll be check raised? I disagree with the turn check. By checking the turn, you have invited TME to bet the river. Bet the turn, hope for him to fold, if not take the free showdown. If you get checkraised, fold. All three situations involve putting one bet at risk, but by betting the turn gives you the chance to solidly define hands. A turn checkraise as a bluff would seem unlikely given the pf capping and the ace on the flop.
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#43
11-16-2005, 01:05 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Turn: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> TheMainEvent checks, Hero checks. [/ QUOTE ] What's your reasoning for checking the turn here? Free card? Afraid that you'll be check raised? I disagree with the turn check. By checking the turn, you have invited TME to bet the river. Bet the turn, hope for him to fold, if not take the free showdown. If you get checkraised, fold. All three situations involve putting one bet at risk, but by betting the turn gives you the chance to solidly define hands. A turn checkraise as a bluff would seem unlikely given the pf capping and the ace on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] But if we bet the turn and he folds, what are the chances that we were going to lose a showdown? He's not laying down AA, KK, AK, AQ, etc. He very probably will lay down QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, etc. I agree, a check behind invites him to bet the river. And that's a good thing, because he will likely bet the river with lots of hands that we beat but that he would have folded to a turn bet. Either path costs us a bet. But if we put that bet in on the turn, we can't win any more money! If we put that bet in on the river, we will likely extract 1 more BB when we ARE winning. Sure, if we bet and he raises or we bet and he folds, we've "defined" his hand. But I don't see the value in defining his hand, because we've already spent the bet, and chances are, we can't profit from our information. I'd rather SEE his hand than DEFINE it.
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#44
11-16-2005, 01:14 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
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But if we bet the turn and he folds, what are the chances that we were going to lose a showdown? He's not laying down AA, KK, AK, AQ, etc. He very probably will lay down QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, etc. [/ QUOTE ] If that is what he would fold, then it would be absolutely be foolish to give him a free card to make his hand on the river.
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#45
11-16-2005, 04:17 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
Thanks for all the responses, guys. I definitely think I should have called. If Sightless is really a thinking player, he couldn't raise me there with KK or QQ. It's one of Sklansky's "Painted Forehead Problems."
I am happy with my turn check. I gave a free card because any hand I'm ahead of has at most 2 outs. A free card is unlikely to hurt me, and any hand I'm beating is folding to a turn bet. There's an off chance he'll bet the river, though, so I think that the chance that I induce a bluff makes up for giving the free card. In the end, he checked to me on a river brick. I bet, and he folded.
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#47
11-16-2005, 04:25 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
I think that's a very good fold. I also hope you wouldn't be raising that on the flop had I called.
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#48
11-16-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
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I think that's a very good fold. I also hope you wouldn't be raising that on the flop had I called. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, as soon as TheMainEvent capped preflop i knew i was way behind. I was going to call the single flop bet, and hope for another heart on the turn or maybe a ten.
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#49
11-16-2005, 04:31 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
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I am happy with my turn check. I gave a free card because any hand I'm ahead of has at most 2 outs. A free card is unlikely to hurt me, and any hand I'm beating is folding to a turn bet. There's an off chance he'll bet the river, though, so I think that the chance that I induce a bluff makes up for giving the free card. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly, agree 100%
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#50
11-16-2005, 04:41 PM
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Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
I see what you're saying Wook, but since the pot is already big, I want to win it on the turn (by betting).
Now that I've thought about it some more, what would TME donk the river with as a bluff if you check through? There weren't any realistic draws on the flop for you to take a free card with to complete, so he would have to put you on some ace. I don't know if this is a huge diffence in EV between us, but I'm a stubborn mofo [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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