Learning to Play Poker

[Student]

It's perfectly natural for one to read a book and understand only those aspects of it that our experiences will permit! That's why I recommend the cycle of Read, Play and Think. During the Reading Cycle we are exposed to far more than our peabrain can absorb (understand, whatever). During the Play Cycle, it's not very likely we're going to have a chance to apply what we've just read precisely, but we continue to strive to apply it. Unfortunately the situations that come up rarely fit what we've just learned. When it does fit, that's when we're going to be given the opportunity to really learn, big-time! But even if we fail to find hands that permit us to apply what we've just read, the mere striving will deepen our understanding of what we've read.

So, we move into the Think Cycle. In this cycle we attempt to internalize what we'd read and what we'd experienced during play. This is when we develop perspective. Not everything we've read happens everyday. While thinking, we come up with other things to be curious about, concerning poker. That's good! That's when we choose topics that we'll next read, during the next Read Cycle.

I suppose I'm different than most, in as much as I have yet to have read a useful book about poker, cover to cover. Instead I hunt for good treatments concerning my present conception of where my biggest leaks are. This hunting is done during the Think Cycle.

For example, the other day I came up with check-raise as being something I didn't understand adequately, discovered the chapter in "The Theory of Poker" concerning this, and decided thereby to read chapters in this book concerning the Theorem of Poker, Check Raising, and Slow Playing. Why? Because I've diagnosed my problem as that I'm not aggressive enough, postflop.

I might read just one chapter, and then play some poker, repeating the 3 cycles over and over again.

I am Student, and it seems that the way I'm organizing my learning process is interesting to some, especially here in the Beginner's Forum. So I invite your questions of me, here in the forum.

Dave

No questions just a general statement of agrement about your approach.

I'm very new to poker and after I played for about a month I realised that I understood the rules but not the game. Obvious answer seemed to be to get a couple of books, whch I did.

Instead of sitting there reading from cover to cover I jsut skim read them. Chapter introductions, the first few pages that outline the concepts and that was it. No in depth study.

I've been playing for a couple more weeks and I'm now understanding a little of what I'm seeing at the table. I'm now able to put names to things and have the ability to go back to the books and look up the thngs that I want to know more about.

This may not be the fastest way to learn or even the best as I tend to do things out of the accepted 'order' but I personally get more out of this approach as I'm more able to accept and understand the points made in relation to things I've recently experienced.

[Student]

It's true, because you're integrating limited experience with your readings! I too am a rank beginner, and I knew I had no basis for understanding, except that I'd watched TV poker for a couple of years, before I began playing poker for money (tiny amounts) starting April 6th.

I've now played about 5,000 hands, which I understand is just about nothing! Yet I have somewhat of a fair basis for readings now, based on ENRICHED experience. By comparison, there are those who have 100,000 hands, and just about all of these hands have been on an unenriched basis. They're just not getting the full experience, not to belittle the considerable amount of time they've devoted to their poker.

I'm 67 years old, and new to poker. I just don't have all that much time to waste, if I would obtain my income goals, and then apply this income generating capability over maybe 30 years of income producing play (ahem!!!). Then too, who of us has time to waste?

The majority of the approx. 360 posts I've done to 2+2 represents serious efforts I've made to learn NL HE, and in a hurry! Documented are the travails of a true beginner, yet it's being done by a person who has been a scientist, and an inventor of a number of major mathematical conceptions. To say I'm thinking outside the box is something of an understatement. In this thread I'll shed light on the learning process, consistent with my 2+2 alias, namely Student. More can be learned by simply reviewing some of these 360 2+2 posts, though many of them are somewhat lengthy. But learning is the game, isn't it? I'd think a lengthy useful article would contain more educational content than a brief one, all else being equal. You decide!

Dave

[ QUOTE ]
Documented are the travails of a true beginner, yet it's being done by a person who has been a scientist, and an inventor of a number of major mathematical conceptions. To say I'm thinking outside the box is something of an understatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of which, has anyone published a book that (probably a stupid question, but I haven't come across one...books on everything I think of nowadays) that is setup like Dan Harrington's books, insofar as each problem shows you your position, size of your stack...cards dealt pre-flop...situation awareness (tight passive game..player to your right, though, is a wild man, etc) and approaches each move from a game theory decision tree perspective (integrals and all)?

I wish there were a program out there that would allow me to enter in a setup and look at each decision...call...raise..re-raise...fold...from an EV/mathematical game theory perspective...

Working with numbers all day makes me kind of lazy for this endeavor [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I love Dan's books for the problems....but have an affinity for numbers, like you, so would love to see something like this....seen anything like this, sir?

[Student]

I was getting ready to respond to your other thread, when I noticed you'd entered my thread too. My answer in this thread will come more easily to me than the other, so I'll start with this one and then go to the other. By the way, thanks for your contributions; they harmonize with how I'm proceeding with poker.

Mastery of the mathematics of poker isn't all that hard. In fact, even in those instances where it gets hairy, the consideration is that there is no practical way of proceeding, given nature of the game. It's one thing to bring forward to a particular hand a theoretic conception, and then spend 2 hours making the computations, and quite another to make this a practical thing in a hand that involves many dozens of individual decisions, all of which are done in the course of the one minute that the entire hand requires to play out.

Several outfits have ranked most internet players, keeping a database on all of us. For perhaps $20/month an individual can share this database. Internet casinos resent the unfair advantage that some players have over their fellow players at a table, so they are attempting to figure out countermeasures. Most of these comprise checking your computer to see which applications you're running in the background; if you're using software that's on the prohibited list, the casino might easily enough threaten to bar you from their casino.

Two (or more) persons, living even thousands of miles apart, can conspire to get onto one table, and share hand info, using the telephone and a separate line. Of course these individuals are cheats, in the full sense of the word, and they deserve hanging (as in the Old West!).

Again and again I've found myself in a situation where my mathematics training permitted coming up with a solution, where none seemed apparent. My Graduated Payment Mortgage (GPM) invention was dictated by necessity. In fact, in late 1973 I used a GPM to buy my present home, and a year later I bought 1,700 apartments in Dallas; the GPM is the 5th dimension of finance, and broke the Gordian Knot that precluded so many real properties from selling. The GPM permitted sharing future benefits of ownership with the seller; the wise buyer required a significantly lower initial payment on debt financing as the tradeoff.

There are applications that I can envision, whereby I can secure advantage in poker, using applied mathematics. I haven't done it, but intend to. After all, I'm still playing 1/2 cents NL HE, which I intend to do until such time as I honestly feel that I have positive expectation of winning, when I sit down to play poker!

Just today I thanked Pov for his linkage to a free site that does more than PokerStove does (another free poker site). In fact, the linkage was published just today, so I suggest you search messages I've put onto 2+2 for today, using the author search capability of 2+2. It was Pov too who published a table of hand expectancies for every one of the 169 possible hands, and for tables with 2 (head-to-head), 3, 4, etc thru 10 players at the table. Pov did this in another of my threads. I wish you well, if you're hunting for it! But it was done early on, and I have only 360 threads on 2+2 so far. I think Pov's table was prepared using PokerStove (and applying lots of elbow greece!).

Hope this helps!

Dave

Just some random thoughts about study habits come to mind while reading your post.

Your cycle is dead on man...
ive read the required texts cover to cover many times...
played hand after hand...
and eventually an idea "clicks"
come to 2+2, Reaffirm the idea by replying to hand posts and it solidifies

See one, do one, teach one. (stolen from medical school)
and the cycle is complete.

Also, if you are a good note taker, you can spare yourself from searching through volumes of work for certain concepts.

samples would include, Preflop, Flop, Turn, river, shorthanded, etc, etc.

The very act of writing down the information helps keep it fresh in your mind. (and be sure to mark the pages of the books where you took the info from)

oh, and i almost forgot!

In today's busy lifestyle one can find themselves struggling to find the time to read teh required texts.
But by following my simple method i promise you will have atleast 30min a day where you can read in peace and quiet.

Step 1. Eat a diet rich in fiber
Step 2. Keep the required texts in your bathroom

Your brain and colon will thank me
(and yes, im serious... i have stats to back it!)
[hyp]

[Mooski]

Studying on the throne! I like it!

BTW, nice to see you're back, Dave, I thought I hadn't seen you for a while.

[Student]

Glad you reminded me about the usefulness of teaching, within the learning cycle! You stated that you posted hands to 2+2, and it could be taken that you meant to secure reenforcement of your ideas, by getting responses from others. To remind others (since I'm sure you're very aware of this!), simply explaining an idea to another has the very real effect of solidifying our own understanding of the idea. Since we don't want to make a public fool of ourselves, we put everything into these public expressions. We draw in examples, refer to reference materials etc, everything simply because our ego demands that we present our ideas with our best foot foreward.

But 2+2 is the perfect vehicle for all of us to act as teachers, as Student often does! Let's say you have been wondering about how you might fix a certain leak you have in your game, for all last week. Then it occurs to you to look up a certain word or phrase in your poker books. Our first shot at it doesn't fix our leak, but our second shot not only fixes the leak but it actually gives us a big improvement in our understanding of the game! It's breakthru time...

Well, why not test your own understanding of this new thing by publishing to 2+2? Tell us which pages in which book inspired your new train of thought. Why not? We in the Beginner's Forum are always interested in the experiences of others, especially the ones that open the eyes wide! In the process you'll learn more, and responders will fill you in on even more aspects of your new awakening. We all learn, even the author, and we all grow. My friends, that's what the Beginner's Forum is all about!

Dave

[Student]

I'd received some encouragement from 2+2 as to usefulness of what I do relating to others, and I came to the conclusion that I benefit too from explaining my ideas (see the post I did a few minutes ago). Besides, it's fun helping others, and I learn too. This last not limited to the brilliant responses I often receive here on 2+2!

Dave