Stars $109...Trouble with AQ, again.

Colombo · #1 12-21-2005, 05:40 AM

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post more of it now, pf questions are usually dumb.

I raise it up here

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Hmm ok

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t3010)
CO (t19050)
Button (t5202)
SB (t4011)
BB (t9245)
Hero (t18060)
UTG+1 (t3330)
MP1 (t16240)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t2150) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero ???

I decideded to limp here for a few reasons (not sure if they are correct, but they exist). For one, i just wanted to mix it up, as i said i had been raising alot, so i kinda wanted this play to look as if i wanted to extract value with AA or something. The 2nd reason can be found in a post by Strassa awhile back. He stated that he often limps with AQ UTG, because it allows weaker aces to come along and play, where raising just pushes them out. So i mix it up and call.

On the flop, should i be worried about controlling pot size? I don't really understand the art of controlling the pot size, why one would want to do it, and how one should go about doing it. Anyway, it's probably standard, but whats a good flop line here?

ZBTHorton · #2 12-21-2005, 05:50 AM

This is certainly not the opinion of every poster here. So take it with a grain of salt.

I don't like playing marginal hands w/o raises. I don't really like playing any hand w/o raising.

Scott_Baio · #3 12-21-2005, 06:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is certainly not the opinion of every poster here. So take it with a grain of salt.

I don't like playing marginal hands w/o raises. I don't really like playing any hand w/o raising.

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I also hate limping, but do occasionally mix it up depending on the table. Don't know if anyone else agrees with this logic but I'm more likely to do it when the bb has a short stack.

#4 12-21-2005, 05:58 AM

I'd raise pre flop. Your percieved active play might make one of the small stack go over the top with a weaker ace.
Since you just called, I would bet that flop, about 1500-2000.

Edited to take account of the missed call.

2005 · #5 12-21-2005, 06:02 AM

I'm generally ok with the limp, and generally ok with a raise. The reason I tend to raise with AQ is that I'm ok just winning the blinds with it and I'll get more information about any opponent's range of hands(most of the time). I would bet 900 or 1k on this flop, call if he pushes. If he just raises, I'd call and re-evaluate on the turn.

Colombo · #6 12-21-2005, 06:05 AM

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I'm generally ok with the limp, and generally ok with a raise. The reason I tend to raise with AQ is that I'm ok just winning the blinds with it and I'll get more information about any opponent's range of hands(most of the time). I would bet 900 or 1k on this flop, call if he pushes. If he just raises, I'd call and re-evaluate on the turn.

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why do you only bet 900 1k? There are 2 players in the pot, and a flush draw. I think i might be getting into the habit of betting my hands too strongly. Why wouldnt a bet of 2k be good here?

2005 · #7 12-21-2005, 06:13 AM

oops, i misread the post, i didnt see the other limper. I'd bet about 1700 and evaluate the action from there.

Jdanz · #8 12-21-2005, 08:07 AM

in general my theory with AQ in EP,

If the blinds are important i raise, if they're not i call.

assuming against unknowns

Colombo · #9 12-21-2005, 02:57 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t3010)
CO (t19050)
Button (t5202)
SB (t4011)
BB (t9245)
Hero (t18060)
UTG+1 (t3330)
MP1 (t16240)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t2150) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t2400, MP1 calls t2400, BB folds.

Turn: (t6950) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t5400, MP1 raises to t13190, Hero calls t7790.

At this point, I think I'm probably beat, but I call anyway because of pot odds. I think that I may have played this hand too passively preflop, and too agressive on the flop and turn. If I had reduced my bets I probably would have been able to get away from this hand. Am I totally wrong on this?

FYI MP1 had Q10 and i went from about 6th place to dead last.

#10 12-21-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t3010)
CO (t19050)
Button (t5202)
SB (t4011)
BB (t9245)
Hero (t18060)
UTG+1 (t3330)
MP1 (t16240)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t2150) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t2400, MP1 calls t2400, BB folds.

Turn: (t6950) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t5400, MP1 raises to t13190, Hero calls t7790.

At this point, I think I'm probably beat, but I call anyway because of pot odds. I think that I may have played this hand too passively preflop, and too agressive on the flop and turn. If I had reduced my bets I probably would have been able to get away from this hand. Am I totally wrong on this?

FYI MP1 had Q10 and i went from about 6th place to dead last.

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preflop either standard raise or fold. why the overbet (or pot sized bet anyway) on the flop? this is screaming that you do not want a call (and may be trying to bluff) and has also now made this a big pot. At the turn, you have 15k and put 1/3 of it in the pot, so that when he pushes you have to call almost 10k to win 25k. With the line you took preflop and the overbet and the call of the overbet on the flop, you might have thought about a little damage control or pot control at the turn. Other than that, this was results oriented thinking, because you did go in with the better hand and got outdrawn, my fear with the flop call would have been that i was up against a set or a limped AA or KK.

FYI --- you stated at the turn that you called 7790, shouldn't that have been 9660 (less ante of course).