$55's... Diamonds Are Forever

[bigt439]

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I think your hand is good and you should call. What hand that beats you makes that play? I see a K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] draw maybe doing that, or maybe nothing. A smart player might play a flopped flush that way... Your flop check and turn lead looks like you're trying to pick up the pot and the all-in is a resteal.

Am I the only one who is leading on this flop and then pushing that turn? Just watch A4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] call you.

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I don't mean to be an ass, but I think I disagree with just about every sentence in that paragraph. I won't get into it because I think of a lot of it will be touched on in future replies.

[Slim Pickens]

Here's the thing, at least one of the two others in this hand has total garbage. The other could have anything from aces up with a diamond draw to a made full house. It's early enough in the tournament that the idiots are still around to call off their stack with aces up on that board. I'm more apt to put the BB on a real hand than the all-in raiser.

If you're wrong and they have 66 and K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], river quads.

[tigerite]

I'd lead the flop as well, SP.

[pooh74]

Another thing I think is worth mentioning is that, yeah, once in awhile you get in a hand like this and make a what turns out to be a "good laydown" and it makes you look like a genius. However, at mid-low stakes, playing these in bulk, 4 out of 5 times you are going to double up here and it isnt worth it, unless your ego is that big or something.

I would never fold here and more power to villain WHEN he beats me...

[bigt439]

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I'd lead the flop as well, SP.

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With what plan for the rest of the hand?

Not saying I don't like it, but it doesn't mean a whole lot in isolation.

To chime in on a couple issues:

- good point about full houses being much less likely than made flushes, but make sure you still remember higher A's that aren't a FH are out, and FH is still a possibility
- make sure we remember we have two villains to beat here
- make sure we are clear that this is an awful spot to bluff, not that it won't happen, but let's be clear only bad players are bluffing here
- I likely have a decent amount of equity if behind
- I don't see any made hand worse than trips doing this (e.g. a ten or KK no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for aces up)

I think mp's hand is, in the following order:

flush
ace that beats me (remember he's in mp)
ace i beat
flush draw
other shizz

Anyways I folded, so did BB. I don't know what either had.

[junkmail3]

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I'd lead the flop as well, SP.


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With what plan for the rest of the hand?

Not saying I don't like it, but it doesn't mean a whole lot in isolation.


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You should be able to get anyone without a diamond or A to fold. So, it works well for isolation/limiting the field.


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- good point about full houses being much less likely than made flushes, but make sure you still remember higher A's that aren't a FH are out, and FH is still a possibility


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You'd likely see AQ or AK raise preflop - not all the time, but most of the time. AQ maybe not ...


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- make sure we remember we have two villains to beat here


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Bet the flop. It will at least define a little more whether or not these monkeys have a hand or not.

Also, with AAA, you've got to be ahead of at least one of them. So, I'm not really worried about 'two' I'm only worried about the one with the flush.


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- make sure we are clear that this is an awful spot to bluff, not that it won't happen, but let's be clear only bad players are bluffing here


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Hm ... okay. Whatever. If you raise and 'bluff' on the flop or turn, and everyone folds, it was a great spot to bluff. This board is scary, if you can get a cheap bluff in, and you think your opponents will fold without a very good hand (will fold top pair/two pair on this scary board) then it is a good spot to bluff. I'm not saying I would, but in the right situation I could bluff at this. Espically if I was 60% (made up number) sure it would push you off of trips.

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- I likely have a decent amount of equity if behind


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True.

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- I don't see any made hand worse than trips doing this (e.g. a ten or KK no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for aces up)


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How long have you been playing?


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I think mp's hand is, in the following order:

flush
ace that beats me (remember he's in mp)
ace i beat
flush draw
other shizz

Anyways I folded, so did BB. I don't know what either had.

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This is saying that you think your opponent has ANYTHING.

[microbet]

FH is just another possible hand that beats you. I wouldn't fold a decent flush for sure.

You beat a bluff or A9,A8,A7,A5-. The weak aces are certainly possible, but a weak ace may bet the flop and 2 pair or better may check.

The hands you beat are a pretty narrow range unless you give him a decent chance of bluffing, I think.

[microbet]

You probably don't remember, but where you thinking c-raise on the flop?

[bennies]

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I think mp's hand is, in the following order:

flush
ace that beats me (remember he's in mp)
ace i beat
flush draw
other shizz

Anyways I folded, so did BB. I don't know what either had.

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Nice post, nice thread altogether.

Personally I have a very hard time putting villain on a hand. I don't believe AK/AQ, those hands should raise preflop and on the flop when checked to.

90% of the time I'd put villain on:
1) Flush
2) Ax (that we beat)

I think the flush is more likely ---> fold.

[Slim Pickens]

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I'd lead the flop as well, SP.

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With what plan for the rest of the hand?

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It depends on who calls. If you lead for 3/4-1 pot and get a call and check-overcall, I'm usually putting the caller on an ace/flush draw/made flush/set and the overcaller on flush draw/made flush/set. Also though, I often forget most players don't care if they're calling or overcalling... anyway. I'm also expecting a set to push a lot of the time on that flop, and mostly discounting the possibility of a better ace out against me. There's also the aces up plus flush draw hands that limpers might have... k[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

When the third ace hits the turn, the pot is big enough to push and get called by everything. The worse ace you have crushed. Against a good flush you have one ace, three jacks, and six board pairing cards for ten outs. Against a a small flush, 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], you have 7 more. I think this is enough to want to get called, although obviously you'd rather not see the river if BB has a small flush that he might fold. That's how I see it playing out.