Negreanu's exit

[West]

Daniel Negreanu describes his exit hand from the WPT championship on his journal. As great a player as he is, his decision to get involved with this hand appears textbook bad to me.

With blinds 600/1200, ante 200, Daniel had about 43,000 in chips. He had described his tables through the tournament as being "awesomely weak", so presumably that is still the case. There is still a player at the table who he says has been overplaying hand after hand, but has been incredibly lucky not to run into any big hand yet.

One the hand in question, UTG limps for 1200, and Negreanu elects to limp with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The three seat calls, and then former WSOP champ Jim Bechtel raised 7000 to 8200. The incredibly lucky player called, and UTG called. Negreanu felt that Bechtel was trying to steal the limps, which he says he had been doing for the last hour since he had arrived at the table. So he felt he was weak. With 30,800 in the pot, he decided to call 7,000.

If you've got a player who has been bully raising limpers since he's been at the table, why would you try and limp in second position with a hand as weak as 54s? He may have felt that the UTG limp would scare away a weak raise, but he doesn't say.

Negreanu's preflop call of 7000 is 1/6 of his stack. That's quite a lot of chips to bleed away with a weak hand out of position (and while he was at a great table). Left with 35,000 in chips, he can only move all in for an amount approximately equal to the pot. Making the decision worse, I think, is the fact that the player who has repeatedly overplayed hands is also seeing the flop (this is bad because Daniel's hand is so weak). If he flops a draw and this player flops top pair, all that is likely to happen is that Daniel will get all in as a 2-1 dog. Not exactly how you want to exploit a weak player at your table. Of course, Daniel probably didn't have enough chips left to fold top pair no matter who had it.

As it turned out, the flop was 9 2 3 r, about as good as Daniel could hope for outside of two pair or trips. He moved in (35,000), and Bechtel went all in himself. Others folded and Bechtel had T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], confirming Negreanu's preflop read. No straight came and he was out.

[JMP300z]

IMHO, the initial limp was pretty bad. However, Daniel says he was running cold and so a combination of frustration and being anxious to get the bad players chips may have put him on some form of tilt. Also, consider that he dislikes "move in" specialists and would rather take flops and play from there as he thinks it magnifies his edge.

-JP

[Russ McGinley]

I'm in agreement with you on Daniel's play on this hand. He figured Bechtel was trying to steal the limps with nothing, but Daniel himself had 5-high and was out of position. I would hope this was a frustration hand but I'd think he'd pick a better spot and a worse player to play against than a former WSOP champion.

[ToneLoc]

Also not that a Bechtel call's of the all-in bet on the flop is not exactly easy...

[Michael C.]

I can understand your point, but isn't this exactly how Daniel plays a lot of the time? So if this is a bad play, can't you criticize most tournaments he wins? It seems like in the end he had a pretty good read on the hand, as his opponent having a 9 was the only way he could get beaten, and even then he was only a 2-1 dog, and it was a tough call. So it seems to me like he played it pretty well after the flop, but just happened to get beat. And if you want to say he misplayed it before the flop, you'd better make those same comments in a lot of the tournaments he wins with the same type of cards.

[Russ McGinley]

Also take into consideration that we don't know what Jim Bechtel's chip stack was at. Daniel's flop all-in was basically a pot-size bet and he had two players yet to act, including the preflop raiser and this "lucky" player as well as Nguyen, although he had checked. Daniel says Jim "studied for a minute", but that could mean anything. Jim likely thought he had the best hand, but he had one player yet to act and the UTG limper, so you have to take that into account. Daniel is a better player than 99% of the field, so the part that I question is him putting his tourney life on the line with 5-high against a respectable player. I don't know if he does that a lot in the tourneys that he's won so I can't comment on that. Daniel shouldn't want to put himself in the position of moving all-in on a draw and hoping nobody else has anything.

[Phil2]

If he is at an awesomely weak table he doesn't need to enter the pot with suited 54. He loves to play these hands. Also, I am suprised to see the all-in semi-bluff decision agaisnt "awesomely weak" opponents who are prone to call with marginal holdings (9 with 10 kicker). Good players tend to release here.

[Vincent Lepore]

If Daniel keeps advertising that he makes these types of plays he, in my opinion, will most likely not find himself in the winners circle as often as he has. Bechtel mad a tough call here. Against another player he may have layed his hand down. But Daniel likes the notoriety that plays like this give him so Bechtel had valuable "information" that helped him make this call. He mucks the hand, I believe, against David Sklansky. By the way I believe that Jim Bechtel is considered a very good tournament player.

Vince

[betgo]

The limp and calling the raise are very typical Negreanu style. I don't think when he limped he neccessarily expected a raise. He is calling a big portion of his stack, but you like the suited connector 3-way. The push was correct and he was about even considering pot odds against top pair.

I might have pushed on a semibluff preflop if I thought Bechtel was stealing. The pot was big enough that it was worth taking and 54s has a 38% chance against J9s and 23% against JJ, but 42% against AK. Pushing preflop here would also not be Negreanu style.

As far as advertising he makes these plays, I am sure Negreanu does want to do it. He might get more action when he really has something.

[West]

Just for clarity, it was at least a 4 way pot (not that I would like calling the raise if UTG folded to it). After the raise there were two callers before Negreanu. And in fact, there was still another limper to act behind him, if I read his journal right.