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#1
06-17-2005, 12:14 AM
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River check-raise time?
Just posted my grimmest hand of the night -- but this was my favorite.
Villain was a TAG, and I put him on a decent ace and/or a decent spade. Check the river looking to checkraise a value-bet or missed flush draw, or bet out? (For what it's worth I thought a strong ace was very likely, probably AK given the preflop cap and the postflop action, i.e raising the turn after things look safe.) Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter Preflop: "Hero" is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, "Hero" calls. Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" bets</font>, MP calls. Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" 3-bets</font>, MP calls. River: (11.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" . . . . ? </font> 
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#2
06-17-2005, 12:32 AM
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Re: River check-raise time?
What hands do you think he would put you on?
Ace with a big spade kicker flush set I think villian is happy to check this down unless he thinks you're LAG enough to play a worse pair and a flush draw this way.
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#3
06-17-2005, 12:41 AM
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Re: River check-raise time?
[ QUOTE ]
What hands do you think he would put you on? Ace with a big spade kicker flush set I think villian is happy to check this down unless he thinks you're LAG enough to play a worse pair and a flush draw this way. [/ QUOTE ] He might. I was on a nice rush of cards and had been ramming and jamming like crazy. So he might have thought I was going nuts with something like K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Tough to say.
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#4
06-17-2005, 01:22 AM
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Re: River check-raise time?
Those were the two I was thinking of when I first read your post.
It only has to work 50% of the time, but he also has to call the river raise. He made it obvious he had a big ace on the turn and you didn't slow down. I can see it working, but I don't think it does enough to be > leading. fwiw, im a big vagina that hardly ever check/raises rivers. But I think it's a bet.
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#6
06-17-2005, 07:54 AM
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Re: River check-raise time?
[ QUOTE ]
Check the river looking to checkraise a value-bet or missed flush draw, or bet out? [/ QUOTE ] Bet out, after the turn action, the chance that he checks back is too high IMO.
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#7
06-17-2005, 12:28 PM
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Re: River check-raise time?
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you lead the flop? I think checkraising this one is superior. EDIT - Also, I think this river checkraise is fairly transparent [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I bet out on the flop looking to 3-bet. By "fairly transparent" do you mean that it's obvious that I should have checkraised the river, or that it'd be so obvious that that was what I was trying to do, there's no way I should go for the river checkraise?
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#8
06-17-2005, 12:35 PM
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Re: River check-raise time?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why did you lead the flop? I think checkraising this one is superior. EDIT - Also, I think this river checkraise is fairly transparent [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I bet out on the flop looking to 3-bet. By "fairly transparent" do you mean that it's obvious that I should have checkraised the river, or that it'd be so obvious that that was what I was trying to do, there's no way I should go for the river checkraise? [/ QUOTE ] The latter. I'm especially interested in the flop bet though. I know if i'm the preflop capper that I definitely passive up if someone bets into me, but maybe it's different for others.
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#9
06-17-2005, 12:45 PM
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Re: River check-raise time?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm especially interested in the flop bet though. I know if i'm the preflop capper that I definitely passive up if someone bets into me, but maybe it's different for others. [/ QUOTE ] I figured that on this monotone flop, if he had an ace (likely) or a big spade (50-50), that he wouldn't be able to help but raise a flop bet here. A flop checkraise looks strong . . . a flop donkbet on a monotone flop could mean anything, and the default is, I think, that I'm a nut on a draw.
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#10
06-17-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: River check-raise time?
-I like leading the flop to 3 bet it more than cr the flop, myself. I just think the cr is unecessary, b/c it is highly likely that there is going to be some action on this flop....and I want it. I think the best way to get the most action is to lead the flop after his pf cap.
-I have been trying to river c/r more myself, with some success. I cannot exacly verbalize it, but I would not have picked this spot...b/c he is less likely to call c/r here than in other situations when he improves to an A on the river. Especially after that turn action, I lead river here. I may also go for the river cr if he had just called turn.
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