Party 10/20: Rivered trips, bet + raise in front

bdk3clash · #1 09-12-2005, 01:24 AM

Comments on all streets appreciated, as they're all (in my mind) questionable to me and I don't have a ton of experience at 10/20. How's the turn check after I pick up the heart draw? How's the river over-coldcall?

Button is very bad--his stats are 77/40/2.3. He went to war with me with Q3 on a Qxx flop after I had raised preflop and generally seems aggro, though not maniacal, postflop.

BB I only had a few (<20) hands on but he seemed tight and passive.

(Converter screwed this one up a bit, so if anything's inconsistent let me know--I had to fix some stuff manually.)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bdk3clash is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. 1 fold, Button calls, bdk3clash completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
bdk3clash checks, BB checks, Button bets, bdk3clash raises, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
bdk3clash checks, BB bets, Button calls, bdk3clash calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
bdk3clash checks, BB bets, Button raises, bdk3clash calls...

TheMetetron · #2 09-12-2005, 01:30 AM

You check a lot in this hand and I really don't like it, especially the check on the flop.

If BB is tight, I also like a raise PF.

It's hard to answer the river question because I hate playing hands the way you did before the river, but I think a 3-bet is in order.

Danenania · #3 09-12-2005, 01:38 AM

Was the turn check an attempt to checkraise the Button again? Either way I think I would lead the turn. You are still quite likely to have the best hand (given that BB didn't bet the flop, a draw seems more likely than a 7). And even if you're behind your equity is still good. The rest of the streets seem standard. On the river I like collecting the overcall even though you almost certainly have the best hand, just because Button will often be bluffing and fold to a reraise.

imitation · #4 09-12-2005, 01:40 AM

Preflop, I wouldn't see a flop with this, but i'm tight right.

Flop, lead, it's 3 way you have 2nd pair why let it get checked through, you can't be assured of a bet from anywhere.

Turn, huh? I don't understand why you want to throw away your momentum, you are ahead of all the garbage hands button could have BB might have a draw to spades so why give that free card as well, I don't get it really at all. Just bet and call a raise, then you can fold the river unimproved.

Anyway 3-bet the river it's more likely button has a 4-weak kicker and if bb has Q7 or even with just a Q they may just call when it's 2 more on the river and if not you make that extra 1-bet from the button calling your 3-bet.

Overall I hate how you played this hand it makes no sense to me.

whodaman · #5 09-12-2005, 01:41 AM

i soulc lead the flop.
i dont get checking the turn.
I like a 3 bet on the river because of your read on button.

Danenania · #6 09-12-2005, 01:43 AM

Preflop would be a bad fold. It's close between calling and raising.

As for the flop, do you guys see this Button's stats? He's going to bet it without fail. Checkraise seems the best play by far to me.

Also I don't think a player who seems "tight passive" is going to call 2 bets from a check 3-bet on this river with just a Q.

Victor · #7 09-12-2005, 01:46 AM

i like all of it and would 3bet the riv.

whodaman · #8 09-12-2005, 01:48 AM

i didn't see the buttons aggression factor. I like the c/r a lot more.
As for the river i still 3 bet because i think the button has a lower 4 here enough(and he is probably capping it according to op read) Plus BB called 2 cold on the flop.

imitation · #9 09-12-2005, 01:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop would be a bad fold. It's close between calling and raising.

As for the flop, do you guys see this Button's stats? He's going to bet it without fail. Checkraise seems the best play by far to me.

Also I don't think a player who seems "tight passive" is going to call 2 bets from a check 3-bet on this river with just a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just disagree with these points generally.

But first lets leave preflop.

On the flop, the pot is small, so what benefit is gained from CRing a LAG, other than it's an obvious protection move to any tight thinking player, when you lead the flop in a small pot in my opinion a tight player is as likely to drop their hand away as when you CR an obvious LAG, couple this with the fact that you really cannot expect the LAG to bet this flop (it is all rags and even they know to expect to be called because there are so many overcards), makes this an easy easy flop lead.

I think 3-betting the river is really easy and tight players often are bad at throughing away hands that are good when there is a lag in the hand.

Danenania · #10 09-12-2005, 01:59 AM

I'm starting to like a river 3-bet more now that I look at it again, so I'll concede on that one.

The flop, however...at 10/20 a guy like this is betting when checked to in an unraised 3-handed pot very close to 100% of the time, so there is no reason NOT to checkraise. You both force out the BB's overcards/draws with a vulnerable holding and pick up an extra sb from the Button with many hands he may have just folded or called with. Checkraising also ties players to their hands psychologically and makes them pay you off with some ridiculous holdings.