NYC poker raid?

[satelliter]

[They cant just say "oh well, we dont know who this guy is because he doesnt have ID, I hope hes not wanted for Murder"..and let you go.

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Neither can they stop you at random and check your "papers" to see if you are wanted for murder (not yet anyway.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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The interesting question in my mind is, will these laws, and the 'grey area' now get tested in court and clarified.

My guess is no. I think the dealers all plea down to criminal mischief or something and get parole and I think the owners strike a deal where they pay a big fine and get off.

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You mean probation not parole... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Actually, I suspect that no one will serve any serious time... but it will be interesting what the future of these clubs (and all of the others in the city) will be. The police could still shut down the club on a few different grounds -- I am not going to state them specifically because I am not so clear of the law -- but this is how they closed down the clubs that were raided several years ago.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Ok... its time for me to out some of you. There are 4 lawyers who play in the Satellite Monday or Wednesday "home" game, can one of you check on the status of the employees from 14th & 72nd, to see if anyone was charged with a crime? Its possible that nobody was charged, thats what took place during the Brooklyn raid. Staff were held but all charges dropped (so I am told).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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Ok... its time for me to out some of you. There are 4 lawyers who play in the Satellite Monday or Wednesday "home" game, can one of you check on the status of the employees from 14th & 72nd, to see if anyone was charged with a crime? Its possible that nobody was charged, thats what took place during the Brooklyn raid. Staff were held but all charges dropped (so I am told).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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So what do you think us "lawyers" can do??? You work downtown -- go to the courthouse and get the scoop -- its easier if you have a few names or case numbers...

I am working my sources -- but they are not law related.

[Luv2DriveTT]

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So what do you think us "lawyers" can do??? You work downtown -- go to the courthouse and get the scoop -- its easier if you have a few names or case numbers...

I am working my sources -- but they are not law related.

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Ok now that you outed yourself ( [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])can you tell me how to get this info at the court house, or can I check it on line? I know the names of quite a few staff members at both places.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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So what do you think us "lawyers" can do??? You work downtown -- go to the courthouse and get the scoop -- its easier if you have a few names or case numbers...

I am working my sources -- but they are not law related.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok now that you outed yourself ( [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])can you tell me how to get this info at the court house, or can I check it on line? I know the names of quite a few staff members at both places.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Well go to the clerk's office and say the password: "Where is the Judges' pink chip game?" Actually, I would be almost as lost as you... the information should be public but I am not sure how easy it is to access...

[other1]

If you show how smart you are at the judge's game maybe you can get a clerkship next semester. You have time now that the club was shut down.. KGB had more important things to worry about than getting the money worm owes.

Wait.. This isn't Rounders?

[The Armchair]

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Ok now that you outed yourself ( [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])can you tell me how to get this info at the court house, or can I check it on line? I know the names of quite a few staff members at both places.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Just a guess:
Call the Manhattan DA's office.
Tell them you a stringer for the NYT and you are researching the story.
Ask what the dealers and owners are being charged with.

[BottlesOf]

No, don't tell them you work for the press, or you will be sent to whatever public affairs office and may be given the roundabout. Just be honest, say you are a concerned citizen if they ask. Just call the DA's office, ask who's handling the such and such case, or how to find out if your "friend" has been charged. Be resourceful, this shouldn't be too hard if you really wanna know the status and it is public.

[Luv2DriveTT]

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No, backgammon has an element of chance, "notwithstanding a ... skill factor". It has been held 'not gambling' by New York Courts. The question in defining "material element" is whether skill or luck "predominates". I call our moderator as my witness.

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A new story reguarding the owner of a North Carolina card club hit the wire on May 24th, I think it is relevent to the topic..

According to Superior Court Judge Orlando Hudson, poker is a game of chance, not skill, and his ruling Monday meant that Howard Fierman could not open his card room, The Joker Club. The Joker Club already had the space for its business, leasing a building in Durham back in November with the intent to open "a business that allows adult persons to play poker against one another and whereby (the club) will retain a portion of funds which are wagered by the players."

In an attempt to give the club the green light to open, The Joker Club sued former District Attorney, Jim Hardin Jr., after he wrote that poker wagering "does not comply with the law." He also said that if anyone was found violating the law, law enforcement officials would be sent to shut down any gambling establishments or events.

Hudson felt obligated to rule by the letter of the 19th century law, which states that it is illegal to wager on games where luck "predominates" over skill. "…how do you measure that?" the judge asked. "If the legislature told us what they had in mind, I'd understand. But they didn't tell us what it means."

Hudson did say that he has nothing against poker and does, in fact, understand that gambling is more accepted today than is has been in generations past.

"The culture is different now," he said. "Society is different. The law is ambiguous in a number of different ways."

Even poker celebrities could not help The Joker Club’s case. One such "ace in the hole" was professional poker player, Roy Cooke, who also writes for CardPlayer magazine. Cook argued that a good poker player needs more than just luck to win. One needs skills such as the ability to remain in control of one’s emotions, keen mathematical aptitude, and a knack for reading opponents.

"Unskilled players tend to lose their money," Cooke said. "Luck is a neutral factor over the course of time. The person who says he is unlucky year in and year out really doesn't play well and is in denial."

Anthony Lee, president of a Bahamas-based casino, admitted that he is not a good poker player, adding, "I can't bluff. In poker, you need certain skills which I haven't worked on."

Assistant Attorney General, David J. Adinolfi II, begged to differ.

"We're not talking about shuffleboard here," he argued. "We're not talking about archery. Poker is simply not legal. ...The turn of a card is what settles it all. The best player in the world can get beat by an amateur. Chance predominates. Chance overwhelms skill."

"The cards are dealt face down. You can be as skilled as possible. You can do all the statistical analyses. But chance predominates when you flip the card over. It's just that simple. You can't will the card to be an ace when it's a deuce."

It remains to be seen how much further The Joker Club will take its fight, but it appears as if it will have to get the law changed if it wants to open its doors.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]