Free Card Play - Wrong spot ??

[MadMat]

Reads -
UTG 25 hands on him, 70%VPIP .5 post flop aggression
BB around 20 hands, also very low post flop aggresion

Interested in comments on the flop play, at the time it seemed like a good spot to go for a free card, position, 2 passive villians, along with overcard+gutshot. I had assumes UTG had a T or Q from his betting out as he seemed too passive to bet a draw.

Cryptologic 0.25/0.50 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.60 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

[Jingleheimer]

[ QUOTE ]

Interested in comments on the flop play, at the time it seemed like a good spot to go for a free card, position, 2 passive villians, along with overcard+gutshot. I had assumes UTG had a T or Q from his betting out as he seemed too passive to bet a draw.

Cryptologic 0.25/0.50 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.60 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only have 3 clean outs to your gutshot and you are way vulnerable to redraws. You would use the free card play to save yourself an extra .5BB that you would spend to get to the river. Are you going to the river with this hand? I think you barely have odds to call the flop bet. If you whiff the turn, you would fold. I think your "free" card is too expensive.

Call flop, fold turn if you miss.

[beset7]

I raise in spots like this all the time and it has gotten very expensive. Just because they've been passive over 100 hands or less doesn't mean we should make free card plays in marginal spots like this.

edit: just realized we have position.

[Fantam]

You have position, but your outs are tainted.

This is probably a marginal call at best. Your draw is very weak with just one overcard and a gut-shot on a 2 flush board.

Remember, that you risk being 3-betted if you try for a free card with a raise. I would just call and see what the turn brings.

[mojobluesman]

I'd fold a hand like this.

You have 3 clean outs to the STR8. The A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is also not clean and the other 2 Aces are no lock to be good.

[Aaron W.]

I don't like it because "passive" villain just bet into the preflop raiser. That's almost never a good sign.

You're also buying a free card with not that many outs. Your gutshot has only 3.5 outs because of the possible flush, and your ace overcard is only worth 1-1.5. So in all, you've got 5 outs or less. Your raise would have been better with two overcards, say KQ on a J95 flop, because the free card is more worth the price (though I may still just call). With KQ on a JT5 flop, I would go ahead and raise for the free card (now you have 7 OESD outs plus 2-3 overcard outs).

[btspider]

i'd call the flop.

sometimes they'll be afraid of a slowplay and check the turn anyway. othertimes the turn card will completely kill your draw and you'd prefer not to have committed to the river.