My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.



Of course it isn't. There's a long tradition of religion (not just Islam) being twisted to justify atrocities, i.e. the Crusades and Manifest Destiny. Just as it would be a gross oversimplifaction and a disservice to the religion to say those events were based primarily on radical Catholicism, it's an oversimplification and a disservice to blame the recent terror attacks primarily on radical Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is NOT parallel.

Islam advocates force in order to achieve it's goal of Islam ruling the world. Christianity doesn't.

Mohammed personally led many wars to gain territory and to forcibly place regions under Islamic rule. Jesus didn't.

Mohammed called on Muslims to fight, kill or subjugate non-believers. Jesus didn't.

Islam does not have to be twisted in order to use it to support wars of religious conquest. Conquest is a part and parcel of the philosophical basis of Islam. Mohammed also offered his warriors booty in this world and paradise in the next.

Christianity advocates turning the other cheek when being assaulted, and resisting not evil, and loving one's enemy.

Islam advocates slaying one's enemy, and slaying the enemies of God.

Those who use Islam to advocate war against non-believers are just following the scripture. Those who use Christianity to advocate going to war against non-believers are turning the teachings of Christianity completely upside down.

There have been many misguided Christians who have taken evil actions against others. That is a tragedy but not the point.

Unless you understand that the philosophical bases of the two religions are poles apart in some of the most profound ways, you will persist in thinking it is only the twisting of either that leads to violence. That is simply a factually incorrect view. One religion preaches forgiveness and nonviolence towards others, whilst the other religion glorifies violence and conquest and forcing the world to submit to its own religious rule. Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do. Look at the actual texts and see for yourself (that is, read and compare the New Testament with the Koran itself, if you wish to gain a deeper understanding of their respective philosophical bases).

[FrankTheTank]

[ QUOTE ]
Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do

[/ QUOTE ]

It's seems to me you should heed your own advice. I've studied the Bible, and I could go through it and pull out dozens of passages that advocate peace and dozens that could be used to advocate violent, hateful aggression. I have not studied the Koran, but I'm going to go ahead and assume I could do the same thing with it. We both agree that religion can be twisted to garner support and justification, I don't think this is a shock to anyone.

You contend that Islam is an inherently aggressive religion, and that, by extention, Muslims are inherently aggressive people. I disagree, based on the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not support radical groups like Al Quada, nor do they "fight, kill or subjugate non-believers."

Do you honestly believe this issue is this black and white? Not even President Bush, in all his religious rhetoric, calls this a war against Islam. Why not? If it was that clear, wouldn't he lay it out to garner support? Of course he would, but he can't because he knows that, even for all the bs we put up with, Americans wouldn't buy that. I know it's easier to believe all our enemies are purely born evil with no legitimate grievances, but that's just not how the world works.

[BZ_Zorro]

Good post. I agree 100%

The muslim world has many valid reasons to hate the U.S., and envy is not one of them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of history and politics imo.

[ACPlayer]

Ah, like you your firewall accepts only politically compatible thought to get through.

Mine lets all sorts of thoughts through and then I decide.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't the WTC get demolished *before* we invaded Iraq?

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did. It was demolished for the two reasons I listed above: our strong support of Israel, and our military presence all over the world, in over 100 countries(but especially the Muslim countries). It could have been avoided.

[ACPlayer]

I concur with this view.

We are suffering the backlash of 100 years of colonialism of Arab lands, highly biased support of Israel, and support of the totalitarian regimes of Saudi and Egypt.

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

[coffeecrazy1]

[ QUOTE ]

Some people on here will say that this plan sounds like appeasement, and it is. Is there something wrong with that? Al Quaeda will have no reason to attack us after this. If they do of course we will pwn them, but they won't. Attacking us after these steps are accomplished for revenge or something like that would just be stupid.

Some on here who say it is appeasement would prefer a more macho proposed solution, like the status quo. But this plan won't work. We will never win the war on terror with violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

As others alluded to on this post, the problem with appeasement has been demonstrated historically. I am not comparing the war on terror with World War II, but I am saying that appeasement will not work against fundamentalist extremists.

Muslims exist in virtually every country in the world. Moreover, they are a significant portion of our country's population. They serve in the military, they vote, and many of them are eligible to become President, if they desire to run.

The problem is that you believe that radical Islamic extremists, on par with the KKK in terms of reason, can be understanding. They DO NOT want to just have their Holy Land back; they DO NOT want to eradicate Israel; and most of all, they DO NOT just want an apology.

They want all of us dead.

Let me repeat this:

They want all of us dead, as quickly and violently as possible. Our response is rather irrelevant. Now, if you are of the opinion that we should be unaffected, continue with our lives, and allow them to do what they will, since it is inevitable, then that is your right to believe.

I do not agree with the war on terror because it is radically ineffective and inefficient. How our military, with all of its resources, can continually fail to find a human being on this planet, in this day and age, defies logic. We are stuck in a quicksand situation in Iraq, too far in to withdraw, for fear of the way the country will go, but not far enough in to do anything other than inflame the situation.

So, I do not agree with Pres. Bush's continued insistence that we stay in Iraq, nor do I enjoy the fact that he has yet to come clean about the reality of the situation to the American public. But, then again, I don't expect any sort of straight answer from a member of either party.

But I digress. The problem with your plan is that it will not have the desired effect, and if, as you say, we will attack them further if they continue to attack(which they will), we will have greatly weakened ourselves as a nation, militarily, politically, and, as a matter of principle.

[BZ_Zorro]

[ QUOTE ]
It was demolished for the two reasons I listed above: our strong support of Israel, and our military presence all over the world, in over 100 countries(but especially the Muslim countries). It could have been avoided.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I'd add another point to that: U.S. intereference in the affairs of the arab people. The U.S. props up corrupt governments in Saudi Arabia and partly in Egypt, and we meddle in their internal affairs. Arabs resent it, and rightly so.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
The U.S. props up corrupt governments in Saudi Arabia and partly in Egypt

[/ QUOTE ]

I found something even more ridiculous than the original posters "plan." Didn't think that was possible.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
It's seems to me you should heed your own advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is precisely what I have done. Sorry you've come so late to this board and have not participated in years of threads involving related matters, but welcome anyway!

[ QUOTE ]
I've studied the Bible, and I could go through it and pull out dozens of passages that advocate peace and dozens that could be used to advocate violent, hateful aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in the New Testament where Jesus is teaching--which is the essence of the philosophy of Christianity. By the way I am not a Christian.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not studied the Koran,

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously.

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm going to go ahead and assume I could do the same thing with it. We both agree that religion can be twisted to garner support and justification, I don't think this is a shock to anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything can be twisted but the philosophical underpinnings of the two religions are profoundly different. You have admitted not being familiar with Islam. Why then do you PRESUME it is rather parallel in its teachings and philosophy? In other words, your opinion of Islam is entirely based on nothing more than pure guesswork.

[ QUOTE ]
You contend that Islam is an inherently aggressive religion, and that, by extention, Muslims are inherently aggressive people.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't contend that Muslims are inherently aggressive. I contend that ISLAM is.

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, based on the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not support radical groups like Al Quada, nor do they "fight, kill or subjugate non-believers."

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree that most Muslims are fairly moderate--and, as Ibn Warraq puts it, "There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate."

[ QUOTE ]
Do you honestly believe this issue is this black and white?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ QUOTE ]
Not even President Bush, in all his religious rhetoric, calls this a war against Islam. Why not? If it was that clear, wouldn't he lay it out to garner support? Of course he would, but he can't because he knows that, even for all the bs we put up with, Americans wouldn't buy that. I know it's easier to believe all our enemies are purely born evil with no legitimate grievances, but that's just not how he world works.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no dispute with that. I am only saying that ISLAM itself is philosophically structured to impose Islam over all other religions (and by force if necessary).

Furthermore, the concept of secularism is inherently at odds with Islam, as Islam makes no philosophical distinction between the secular and the sacred, nor between the religious and the political, and Islam's goal is to bring the entire world under Islamic rule.