Can Continuation Betting be correct where players have no memory?

[orange]

The primary reason I c-bet is to gain value from made hands (pairs, etc) and to make my opponents fold (not necessarily better hands), but their hands at the moment.

In many cases, the flop will help neither you or your opponents. In this case, I find that I can take the pot first and foremost by betting, whether I hit or not. With missed overs (AK, etc), I want to win the pot at the flop, not allow my opponents to hit something.

Obviously c-betting is situation-dependent, and usually only used when HU. These are some reasons I c-bet.

[DiabloVt7]

CC-bets depending on the table will work at least half of the time. Also when you do flop a great hand (say nut flush) you can still lead out at the pot. Why not? If they do notice that you are betting the flop so much they will surely pay you off. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Godfather80]

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CC-bets depending on the table will work at least half of the time. Also when you do flop a great hand (say nut flush) you can still lead out at the pot. Why not? If they do notice that you are betting the flop so much they will surely pay you off. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Again, though, we are talking about opponents who don't notice your betting patterns after raising preflop. There are many such players out there and this conversation is geared toward discussing the effectiveness of C-betting against them.

Orange, I think I'm with you on this. I've been C-betting as a rule, and I think this is a mistake unless you are heads up. I think I will pick my spots better in multi-way pots (ie not C-betting calling stations, but C-betting weak-tighters and not C-betting out of position in multiway situation unless the situation is perfect).

[TheRegulat0r]

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So what are some stats that indicate a calling station?

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PFR less than 5%
Postflop Aggression less than 1.2.

I make continuation bets to pick up pots against weak players on ragged boards. It's about that simple.

[Macquarie]

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I think I'm misunderstanding the main purpose of continuation betting. It is my belief that you continuation bet primarily to ensure that you get action when you do have/hit a hand. Secondarily, on occasion, continuation betting may fold out a worse hand.

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CBs do not require any memory to be +EV IMO.

People will often fold better hands. People set-mining with low to mid pocket pairs will often fold to a CB when overcards flop. People playing Ax for flush draws or suited-connectors will sometimes fold when they pair a low card but there are overcards (and they hit no draw).


Remember that oftentimes you and your opponent will both miss. You have the best hand (i.e. A high). You want to pick up the pot these times, and the way to do that is with a continuation bet; no point in checking and risking losing the pot to bluffs or people hitting outs (even though sometimes _you_ will hit an out).

I almost always CB heads up, and almost always in a three-way hand with position. OOP in a multiway pot I'm more likely just to check. Depends on opponents.

Check out the "folds to flop bet" stat for your opponents. You can certainly view this using PokerACE HUD, not sure for playerview. This stat varies hugely from player to player, and ranges from 30 or 40% for calling stations to over 90% for weak-tight nits. Very handy stat...

[fuzzbox]

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continuation betting only costs you money as it will rarely (if ever) force out a better hand, even if that hand is only bottom pair weak kicker.

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Don't CB into calling stations, only bet for value vs those

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Certainly CB into calling stations, they only call if they have a hand, which is about 1/3 of the time. Dont double-barrel CB them on a bluff though.

i get aggro-players reraising me all-in all the time.
in fact to such a degree that i basically never lay down TPTK
as it is more profitable despite losing some stacks

[Macquarie]

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i get aggro-players reraising me all-in all the time.
in fact to such a degree that i basically never lay down TPTK
as it is more profitable despite losing some stacks

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Wow. At what level? Certainly my experience of NL100 is that this would be chip suicide.

[Malachii]

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Dont double-barrel CB them on a bluff though.

[/ QUOTE ] I really need to remind myself this when I'm playing.

[Escotme]

I think C-bets are especially useful against players with no memory. The primary purpose of a C-bet is not to knock out stronger hands per se, but all hands that didn't hit, low pairs, draws as well as to GAIN INFORMATION. (This if u didn't hit) If u did hit, then it's a value bet.

What's the alternative? By not betting, u leave villain chance to hit his hand or scare u away, even if u have the better hand.

My theory - and experience - says that hu, villain folds more than half the time on flop, 1/6 of the time on the turn (fire 2nd barrel w/ position only). 1/12 of the time, it's check down and u win on high card. The rest is player-dependent.

Without doing the math (assuming I don't call, raise or push villain turn bet with pure bluff) I'd say that's ++EV.

But maybe our tables and opponents are very dissimilar.