Overplaying overcards?

Kumubou · #1 06-15-2005, 03:04 AM

These are generally considered to be extremely difficult hands to play, especially out of position. I doubt anyone will ever be comfortable playing these situtations (being out of position blows ass), but every little bit helps.

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Hand 1: The CO would go to showdown with some wacky hands, whereas the Button needed at least some part of the board to go to showdown. Both are loose and passive pre and post flop.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Heroine is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Heroine raises, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Heroine bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Heroine bets, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Heroine checks, CO bets, Button calls, Heroine folds.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

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Hand 2: Villan is a bit too loose and a bit too passive pre-flop, but has shown some agression with decent hands (like TP) post-flop.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Heroine is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Heroine raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Heroine bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 raises, CO folds, Button folds, Heroine calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Heroine checks, MP2 bets, Heroine calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Heroine checks, MP2 bets, Heroine folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

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Hand 3: Villan is your typical loose/passive, with one addition: he would checkraise in random spots at completely random times. With monsters, with marginal hands, with crap... you don't know!!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Heroine is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Heroine raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Heroine bets, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Heroine bets, CO raises, BB folds, Heroine calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Heroine checks, CO bets, Heroine folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

-K

dozer · #2 06-15-2005, 03:15 AM

yea these hands are hard to play out of position, except for the first hand.

The first 2 hands are fine, can't really comment on them.

the third hand I would fold to the turn raise. I don't see a loose passive raising you here with just top pair, so you're likely drawing dead.

SteveL91 · #3 06-15-2005, 03:15 AM

Hand 1 is fine. The turn bet may be debateable. Against two players, I will tend to bet and sometimes I check; really depends on what, if anything, I know about the other players.

Hand 2 is very over-played. You shouldn't be betting that flop. I'm not sure about the turn call. There are no flush draws and your overcards won't complete any straight draws, so you may be able to count them for a full six outs.

Hand 3 is borderline. I can go either way with the flop bet. I'm not thrilled with it, but I don't hate it either. Given that there were limpers before you raised, I'd be more inclined to check this flop. Fold the turn.

Stuey · #4 06-15-2005, 03:47 AM

Hand 1

I would check/raise the flop. I want to build the pot, I have a strong draw. I want to improve my chances to win the pot as fast as possible incase I don't hit the draw.

I would bet the turn as you did.

I would check/fold the river also given your reads. If the check raise gets rid of a player and it is heads up on the river I might bet unless your read is strong.

Hand 2

I would check/call the flop. With this many players betting out seems to risky. I check/call for one bet only. I am not winning unimproved this time so I want to see cards cheap.

I would check/fold the turn. Weak I know but that's what I want to do hard to explain why but I would bail here. I give him credit for the flop raise he has something I don't want to pay to draw to my 3 outer.

Hand 3

I like the flop bet.

I bet the turn also but I have no idea what I would do facing a rasie here. I want to fold but I think you have to call. Screw it I fold I don't care if it is weak, it's the truth and it is what I would do. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] He could be bluffing yes but I don't need to catch him evertime he bluffs just once will make up for it. I wait for a better place.

Can't wait to see what others say I feel I am wrong on all these hands. Nice post clearly this is part of my game that needs work.

eejit · #5 06-15-2005, 04:45 AM

Hand 2.

I'd agree that this hand was overplayed against this many players. I'd check and call one, fold to a raise.

aron · #6 06-15-2005, 06:38 AM

Isn't hand 2 a: the-pot-is-large-and-you-bet-to-limit-the-field-to-increase-your-chances-of-winning-when-you-hit sort of situation?

You might be reversed dominated you don't want anyone to pick up a flushdraw if you spike a pair on the turn and so on.

I also hate this type of hands and am working on fixing my leak here.

Stuey · #7 06-15-2005, 09:20 PM

bump for more input

aK13 · #8 06-15-2005, 09:25 PM

Hand 1 looks good.

I don't like Hand 2. What do you hope to accomplish by betting into 6 players with overs? Check and see what goes down.

Hand 3: Given your read, I'd call down. Against unknowns, I typically play the same way.

Sinnister · #9 06-15-2005, 09:30 PM

Hand 1 well played.

Hand 2 the field is way to big to be betting into in my opnion you should check call 1 bet on the flop if UI check/fold the turn.

Hand 3 bet/fold the turn.

GL.

MDO67 · #10 06-15-2005, 09:38 PM

IMO, you played the first hand correctly. The flush draw is a strong draw and you had many outs and good pot odds.

Hands 2 & 3 should have probably been folded at the turn. In hand 2 you said that the villain plays aggressively with TP or better so he probably has Queens. Hand 3 is a tougher fold because the villain could have anything. I still fold it and wait for a better time.

All of that said, I agree that these are very tough to play and you end up second guessing every decision you make when holding overcards.

- Mark