Yet another Israeli atrocity

[nicky g]

An army commander is recorded on radio on and accused by his own troops of murdering an innocent thirteen year-old girl and what does he get charged with by the Israeli High Command? "Conduct unbecoming an officer" - as if he'd mistreated a dog or sworn in the presence of a lady.


"The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier .

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body. "


Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

[wacki]

I think you left out some important facts:

There was more than one charge, but they are all minor:
-------------------------------------------------------
"Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions"


Also, the events are even more tagic then you make them out to be:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."
A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.
The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."
The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.
Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."
Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body.


Since the Major General of the Gaza strip found that he had "not acted unethically", and there is a talk about a "zone" it sounds like she was in a "shoot anything on site kill zone:. Is that right?

The story is still horrible, she was shot in the leg and he obviously knew she was a wounded immobilized 10 year old girl. The man is a murderer in my book. It is a sick and disgusting tragedy. I'm just wondering if the "zone" they are talking about is a death zone or not. I'm just trying to understand the legalities.

I'm also curious how many times 10 year old girls/boys have been used in suicide bombs. But considering that she was walking away when she was shot, that probably shouldn't be counted as a factor.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also curious how many times 10 year old girls/boys have been used in suicide bombs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never. The youngest Palestinian to carry out a suicide bombing was 16 (Wikipedia). Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad have disavowed the use of children under the age of 18 in terror operations (Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers). Last March, the Israeli border police reportedly intercepted a 12-year-old boy who "unwittingly" had been armed with a bomb that Al Aqsa Martyrs were planning to detonate remotely, without the boy's knowledge. The report, cryptically originating from "Israeli Security Sources" (according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs), was notable for its lack of details, implausible premise and general inability to persuade the mainstream press (the IDF has been caught before trying to fabricate "suicide bombers"). But it was widely circulated through the pro-Israel propaganda network, often with the boy's age changed from 12 to 10.

Israel has taken a lot of heat for the 500+ Palestinian children it's killed since 2000. One result has been a fair amount of counter-propaganda about "child terrorists" to suggest that Palestinian kids are understandable if not reasonable targets.

[Gamblor]

One result has been a fair amount of counter-propaganda about "child terrorists" to suggest that Palestinian kids are understandable if not reasonable targets

No Israeli soldier acts under the premise that kids are targets unless they have knowingly or unknowingly been armed with weapons.

Child deaths are either accidental or the result of stupidity. Either an individual soldier's or the child's.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
Child deaths are either accidental or the result of stupidity. Either an individual soldier's or the child's.

[/ QUOTE ]
Palestinain children are "stupid" for being shot to death by invading Israeli troops? Given your endorsement of the marketplace bombing of Arab families, this is like reading the account of some neo-Nazi who both denies the holocaust while admitting that he'd prefer it happened.

Bet Tselem reports, as of today, 592 Palestinians under the age of 18 killed by Israel during the last four years, nearly half of those under the age of 15 and including infants as young as a few months old. This comes to five Palestinian children killed by Israeli terrorists for every Israeli child killed by Palestinian terrorists, but only the latter are condemned in the U.S.

The forensic evidence doesn't lie: these aren't 592 cases of "accident" or "stupidity" but a systematic campaign of terror by indiscriminate firing and snipers shooting at the heads, necks and torsos of children that pose not the slightest threat to Israeli troops. According to Dr. Derek Summerfield, writing in last October's British Medical Journal, "Clearly, [Israeli] soldiers are routinely authorized to shoot to kill children in situations of minimal or no threat." His opinion is hardly novel or unique. (E.g., The The Palestinain Center for Human Rights: children killings result from "indiscriminate shooting, excessive force, a shoot-to-kill policy and the deliberate targeting of children").

Consider just a few of the child murder accounts garnered by Israeli journalist Gideon Levy: <ul type="square"> Mohammed Aaraj was eating a sandwich in front of his house, the last house before the cemetery of the Balata refugee camp, in Nablus, when a soldier shot him to death at fairly close range. He was six at the time of his death.
Kristen Saada was in her parents' car, on the way home from a family visit, when soldiers sprayed the car with bullets. She was 12 at the time of her death.
The brothers Jamil and Ahmed Abu Aziz were riding their bicycles in full daylight, on their way to buy sweets, when they sustained a direct hit from a shell fired by an Israeli tank crew. Jamil was 13, Ahmed six, at the time of their deaths.
Muatez Amudi and Subah Subah were killed by a soldier who was standing in the village square in Burkin and fired every which way in the wake of stone-throwing.
Radir Mohammed from Khan Yunis refugee camp was in a school classroom when soldiers shot her to death. She was 12 when she died.[/list]("Killing Children is No Longer a Big Deal" Ha'aretz, 10/17/04) Levy's conclusion is inescapable and applies with equal force to Israel's terrorist sponser, the U.S.: <ul type="square"> The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our hands. No tortuous explanation by the IDF Spokesman's Office or by the military correspondents about the dangers posed to soldiers by the children, and no dubious excuse by the public relations people in the Foreign Ministry about how the Palestinians are making use of children will change that fact. An army that kills so many children is an army with no restraints, an army that has lost its moral code.[/list]

[Gamblor]

Ok let's examine your sources.

Dr. Summerfeld supported the Academic boycott of Israel, thus declaring in so many words that "Whatever the government of Israel does, all Jews are responsible for and all Jews must be punished."

Whether or not you agree with Israeli policy, boycotting academics just because they are Israeli is racist and anti-semitic. Period.

The Palestinian Centre for Human rights is a propaganda machine for the "Palestinian Cause" so I don't see much point in looking at that article. After all, you've dismissed dozens of articles I've posted based on perceived bias. But of course, perhaps they could show me the State of Palestine on a map. That might give them some credibility.

As far as Ha'aretz goes, if you'd ever been to Israel, if you'd ever actually been to Israel, you'd understand that Ha'aretz is a newspaper that resides somewhere on the credibility scale between The National Enquirer and the Village Voice. But keep quoting it, anyone who knows where the real facts come from can only smirk in your face.

Most importantly, each and every description you give is an account given by someone with a vested interest in eliminating any Israeli military presence in the area. Be they Arabs on the street, anti-Israel activists, whoever, and Israel-hating journalists eat it up as if it were truth. Of course, when the Zahal defends itself, the journalist is skeptical and untrusting. That way, the Arabs can send in more bombs and send in more murderers to kill as many Jews as possible without interference from the pesky military.

Oh and one more thing. An individual soldier commits shameful acts and you claim that all of "Israel murders children every week."

You fucking racist.

[ACPlayer]

No Israeli soldier acts under the premise that kids are targets unless they have knowingly or unknowingly been armed with weapons
Clearly there are many kids unknowingly armed with weapons as so many have been shot by the IDF goons.

[Gamblor]

As of right now, I think the Captain should be shot in the balls.

But I don't know the truth, and I know more than to trust the Guardian to find it. I'll find out the story and get back to you on this.

If that's all the court could charge him with, there might be something else going on. In Israel, the justice system operates independently of government and thus the government can not influence charges laid or decisions, so such a travesty could not be an indictment of Sharon or Likud policy.

Maybe the evidence wasn't there (remember, it takes more to convict an Israeli in legal courts than in the court of nickyg).

Maybe a favour was called in, bribery, who knows.
Only a racist could turn the acts of one man into an "atrocity" of an entire nation.

This is not the kind of man Raful spent his life defending.

I'll find out the truth though, not what some reporter typed from her Jerusalem loft.

[Tuco]

Glad to hear you are going to go do some research. Before you do that however, why do you feel the need to start making up excuses for the "soldier"? Can't you just say:

"Wow, that sounds bad. Let me do some more research and get to the bottom of this."

It would greatly increase your credibility in your personal battle to be the Israeli appologist pooh bah.

While your at it, maybe you could tell us why it was okay to bulldoze Rachel Corrie, an obviously unarmed American protestor.
link

[ QUOTE ]
Only a racist could turn the acts of one man into an "atrocity" of an entire nation.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, lets see. He is an Israeli, and he seems to have commited a horrible atrocity. That makes it, get ready for it, an Israeli atrocity. The word "Israeli" can decribe both an individual and a nation. English is so complex.

Both sides actions make me sick to my stomach on a daily basis. The argument is only who is more despicable.

Tuco.

[Gamblor]

While your at it, maybe you could tell us why it was okay to bulldoze Rachel Corrie, an obviously unarmed American protestor.

While anyone has to extend deepest condolences to her parents, it is absurd that an International Solidarity Movement (a group that has admitted some of its members have ties to Hamas, a terrorist organization) member would give up her life to defend an inanimate object. A house.

But I digress. Was Corrie a peace activist? Nobody with peace in mind would be caught burning an American flag and shouting anti-Israeli cheers! Peace activists promote peace, they do not side with one party in a conflict.



Where are all the peace activists confronting Islamic terror? North Korean totalitarianism? Chinese Communist despotism? None, because they know that if they protested those ideologies, they might actually get hurt.

So spare me your tears for her. Save them for her family.

So I don't know how she died. But I don't trust Palestinian or ISM eyewitnesses who undoubtedly have a clear anti-Israel bias.

Before you do that however, why do you feel the need to start making up excuses for the "soldier"?

I'm not making excuses for the soldier; I'll wait until I find out more about the specific case. I was shedding some light on why it might be that, IF this was indeed cold blood murder, he was charged with medium offenses. He wasn't exactly charged with jaywalking, but not murder either.