Do I bet or check?

Fraubump · #1 06-27-2005, 12:19 AM

You are BB holding T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 players including SB call preflop. You check.
Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks. What is your action?

You have a non-nut made hand with, except for the inside straight flush draw, non-nut redraws. This seems like a real toss-up to me. Unless someone has QT or something massive like trips and the nut flush draw, it's probably going to be checked around if you check. So is it more valuable to you to get a free card or to not give a free card? It is hi-lo, so you'd rather not give a freebie to low draws. This probably tips the scales toward betting your almost powerful hand. It'd be tempting to go for a check raise, to try to get it heads up and hope your oppoenent just has QT and no redraws.

sy_or_bust · #2 06-27-2005, 12:57 AM

I'm pretty new to O/8, but I consider this an easy bet. It's 4-handed so you're likely ahead (with redraws), you want to fold or charge weak backdoor lows and stronger draws. The flop is middle cards, so you'll win on the flop occasionally too. Checkraising is silly - a free card is the worst thing that can happen to your vulnerable made hand.

Fraubump · #3 06-27-2005, 01:43 AM

Clarification: 4 players call before I check, so 5 players, including me, post-flop.

templar999 · #4 06-27-2005, 10:44 AM

fraubump,

you've got to bet this one just about everytime. the key is all your redraws. you have a hand that you dont care if they call or fold. you can either bet for value or to drive players out. if they all fold, great. if a low draw wants to call you and hope for runner-runner, great. if a gut shot wants to call, great. if a bigger flush draw wants to call, he's getting good odds, but that's better than infinite odds. i wouldnt worry too much about a set with these cards. JJ and 88 are unlikely as you've got one each. not too many play any hand with 99 in them. if someone has QT and raises you, so be it. you've still got 10+ outs twice, assuming he has no bigger diamonds.

the only time you might consider a check raise is if you're certain no one but the button will bet and you can raise to drive players out. unless you have a great read on all four opponents, i dont recommend this course of action very often.

respectfully,
temp

AKsPRO · #5 06-27-2005, 10:48 AM

Maybe check

JoshuaMayes · #6 06-27-2005, 11:04 AM

I would bet that almost every time. I don't want to give a free card to anyone sitting on low cards or a better non-nut flush draw.

The only time I wouldn't bet is if one of the LP players was aggressive enough that he would almost always bet this on the flop if checked to, and then I would go for a check raise. Even if my hand is not good, I want to clean up my redraws.

gergery · #7 06-27-2005, 02:45 PM

I bet this 100% of the time as there are
1) a fair number of hands that are behind that can/will call you

2) your hand is pretty good, but its not the nuts now and has only 1 out to the nuts. There can certainly be hands that have you crushed here (QT with higher flushdraw for example) and you want to find out on the cheap street whether someone can hang with you.

3) Against one opponent you are rarely in bad shape, but against two opponent you can be in trouble (if one has QT no diamonds, and the other has Ax diamonds then you’re drawing to 5 outs). So if you get 3 callers then you probably need to check the turn, but with 1 caller I bet very often.

-Greg

PokerProdigy · #8 06-27-2005, 08:50 PM

It seems like you should bet here because your hand is somewhat strong and there is only one low on board and you definitely don't want to give free cards that make someone a better straight or even a low draw.

PokerProdigy · #9 06-27-2005, 08:55 PM

I am somewhat confused in these situations about how to proceed on the turn. Can someone explain to me what they'd be thinking about on the turn (and maybe even the river).

sy_or_bust · #10 06-28-2005, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am somewhat confused in these situations about how to proceed on the turn. Can someone explain to me what they'd be thinking about on the turn (and maybe even the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who calls, and what sort of players they are. If everyone calls, and they aren't awful, I lead a non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]/T/7 and check the scare cards. I want to see the river for one bet. If the river adds a low to the 3-flush I will often fold unimproved. I'll make looser river calls if I'm playing for the whole pot. So much of this depends on your opponents and tendencies (i.e. will they bet 2 pair on the button on 4th?, will they only bet a made hand?, are they loose?, etc.)