super draw vs unknown

#1 12-13-2005, 03:21 PM

just a few hands into the game, nothing special from the guy, no pt either...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($47.55)
SB ($60.19)
BB ($39.20)
UTG ($133.60)
MP ($48.90)
Hero ($47.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets $2, BB folds, MP folds, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $2.

Turn: ($10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10.

River: ($30) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB calls $15.

Final Pot: $60

stronger move on the flop, larger bet on the river? too soon to get a read on him, like i said.. btw,what do you think he had?

ajmargarine · #2 12-13-2005, 03:27 PM

Raise a bit more on the flop. Check behind on the turn. 3/4 pot river.

#3 12-13-2005, 03:29 PM

A stronger move on the flop isn't a great idea here, the turn bet was nice, I might bet less here at this level to induce some more action, I'm not sure of the exact math, but with a FD and SD, you are ahead of most villain's holdings. The river bet was good because you want to get any made straights to smell weakness, along with the fact that loose players at this level will showdown with even less.

Cambraceres

Guin · #4 12-13-2005, 03:35 PM

I think you are against Ad10o or 910o and they look like the typical passive player that works at this level against guys who overplay hands.

I think that you should have raised flop to $6 and then the pot bet looks good on turn. Only thing that can call you for a larger river bet are hands that beat you. Looks like a good value bet to me.

Guin

DJ Sensei · #5 12-13-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise a bit more on the flop. Check behind on the turn. 3/4 pot river.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, thats the one.

(he had... KJ?)

Mercman572 · #6 12-13-2005, 04:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A stronger move on the flop isn't a great idea here, the turn bet was nice, I might bet less here at this level to induce some more action, I'm not sure of the exact math, but with a FD and SD, you are ahead of most villain's holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in Aj's camp and disagree with these statements. Here's why:
1. Minraising the flop has no fold equity. A PSR ($6) is in order both to disguise your hand, give you some fold equity, and increase the pot when you do hit so you can make larger value bets.
2.Calling makes your hand mroe transparent if you hit the FD. You are 55% to make one of your draws on the flop.
3. Betting the turn is not a good move because yuo don't have fold equity and are essentially charging yourself to draw. Your percentage to hit a draw on the turn has reduced to about 33%.
4. River, get more value with a 2/3 to 3/4 pot bet. You do not appear to have a flush draw given your line.

ajmargarine · #7 12-13-2005, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are against Ad10o or 910o

[/ QUOTE ]

Off to hand reading school for you sir. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Villian's most likely holding is Jx. At this level, there is no need to bet the turn and charge yourself to draw. You are behind a one pair hand on the turn. It may be obvious to us that this is a semi-bluff raise on the flop after we check turn, but it's not so obvious to the average SSNL'er that we face every day. If your default line is to pot the turn here, you are chip spewing.

#8 12-13-2005, 04:18 PM

he had J5 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

#9 12-13-2005, 04:29 PM

i bet the turn so hard because i had the open ended str-fl, i would have checked with the initial draw and i thought he might fold a weak J for such a big bet. though now i don't think it was a good idea, i've seen much worse calls at this level and folding top pair seems to be out of question for most ss donks. andi think he would have called a lot more, he called the 15$ without blinking.