Capping With Jacks

Lost Wages · #1 12-31-2004, 04:35 PM

Only played a few hands against preflop limp-reraiser but so far he has been tight passive. Others are loose passive. Not really sure I have a question here, just wondering if anyone plays it different.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero folds, CO folds.

River: (14 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Button bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Lost Wages

BottlesOf · #2 12-31-2004, 04:38 PM

Nope, seems fine.

k_squared · #3 12-31-2004, 04:42 PM

I would fold after the flop. A capped pot with two over cards and two opponents... You are drawing at best to 2 cards, at best and that is a 1 to 22 shot (and you might be drawing dead or to one out if someone else has the diamond draw that kills the J of diamonds). The flop came bad! It is time to let it go, especially against a player you peg as TA. One over card and I might play (and do so aggressively) but two and you are dead to most hands which tight players will 3 bet (AA, KK, QQ, AK) and hands they might three bet (KQs, AQs, KJs, QJs etc.) There are very few hands that are worth three betting that you can beat after that flop, especially with a diamond draw you can't back into!!! FOLD, and FOLD FAST.

Also, if I had the J of diamonds I would definately play!!!

-K_squared

Haupt_234 · #4 12-31-2004, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold on after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 2 outter is a 23:1 shot. Hero is getting 22:1 to call; add in the implied odds if he hits and it's an easy call.

Haupt_234

Harv72b · #5 12-31-2004, 04:49 PM

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to cap with JJ against a tight passive player. If he's 3-betting, he's probably got higher pockets than you.

With the size of the pot I don't think you fold for 1 SB on the flop. Yes, you're drawing thin, but the implied odds are significant to say the least if you hit another J (or catch your backdoor straight). The check/fold on the turn is also good.

Piiop · #6 12-31-2004, 04:54 PM

Also has BD str8 potential.

k_squared · #7 12-31-2004, 04:57 PM

IT ISN'T REALLY 2 OUTS!!! You can't count this as 2 outs because they will not definately give the the best hand if they are hit. Against a tight passive player (as he describes him) there is even a SIGNIFICANT chance you are drawing dead to a higher set. So if you count that as 2 outs you are crazy, especially with a diamond draw that one of the other players might have (especially those other loose passive players who called 4 bets pre-flop! suited hands seem like a good possibility) not likely but possible and again weakening your '2 outs' even more.)

And a 2-outer on the turn lays ODDS of 1 to 22.5 and on the river it lays ODD of 1 to 22 the number changes because in one case you see an additional card. IT DOESN'T LAY ODDS of 1 to 23.5 but it is true that the chance of you hitting your card is 1/23.5... which is not the same thing, although you do derive one from the other. Correct me if I am wrong, but I just double checked the math on some scratch paper...

-k_squared

Lost Wages · #8 12-31-2004, 04:58 PM

Since he limp 3-bet from the button, I thought that there was a good chance his raise was B.S.

Lost Wages

spydog · #9 12-31-2004, 05:00 PM

I don't like the preflop cap. You said the limp reraiser was tight passive, so his play smells of KK or AA. If he was a loose raiser, then I wouldn't put him on such a small range of hands.

Also, the flop play can be debated. You don't have the Jd, so if it hits you may be up against a made flush. Plus, either Jack could give someone the broadway. Plus, Mr. Limp Reraiser may have trip Kings already. This means that you can't throw endless chips into the pot on the turn and river if you hit a Jack on the turn, which means the implied odds get cut. Calling is fine, but I think i fold the flop. In the long run, it's probably a breakeven play either way.

Haupt_234 · #10 12-31-2004, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
IT ISN'T REALLY 2 OUTS!!! You can't count this as 2 outs because they will not definately give the the best hand if they are hit. Against a tight passive player (as he describes him) there is even a SIGNIFICANT chance you are drawing dead to a higher set. So if you count that as 2 outs you are crazy, especially with a diamond draw that one of the other players might have (especially that loose player! not likely but possible and again weakening your '2 outs' even more.)

[/ QUOTE ]

So, discount the odds of hitting the set and making someone a better hand. Now, add in the odds of hitting a BD straight. I think it evens out to around 2 outs.

[ QUOTE ]
And a 2-outer on the turn lays ODDS of 1 to 22.5 and on the river it lays ODD of 1 to 22 the number changes because in one case you see an additional card. IT DOESN'T LAY ODDS of 1 to 23.5 but it is true that the chance of you hitting your card is 1/23.5... which is not the same thing, although you do derive one from the other. Correct me if I am wrong, but I just double checked the math on some scratch paper...

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what you're arguing here.

Haupt_234