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  #31  
Old 12-25-2005, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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Elliot is able to read between the lines and discern the fact that I am advocating Bush dissolving congress and ruling by decree, from the fact that I agree with the Patriot Act and some minimal restrictions on our liberties during time of war. I'm surprised the rest of you aren't as perceptive.

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lol. Not quite. I didn't say anything about you advocating anything. I said only that you would support the measures I stated if Bush took them. It's reflexive with you. Beer, too.

So which one of you is BGC?
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  #32  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:30 AM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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(i.e. how many know that CIA are able to turn on the microphone on whatever cellular phone they would like to, and thus bug the room, at any time without the user noticing?)

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How do you know this to be true, and have you any good links for us?
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:12 AM
tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(i.e. how many know that CIA are able to turn on the microphone on whatever cellular phone they would like to, and thus bug the room, at any time without the user noticing?)

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How do you know this to be true, and have you any good links for us?

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It *might* be possible for them to do this. There are some phones that have an "auto-answer" mode, and if you have them in "silent" mode you can effectively call them and start listening. However, this is detectable simply because the display of the phone will switch to the "call active" screen.

Now, it's also possible that the CIA makes all cell manufacturers and service providers install a backdoor that lets them remotely activate the phone with no visible status indicators. Of course, this also would be detectable, since the phone will be pumping out it's normal transmission to the nearest tower. A clock radio near your phone is enough to tip you off if you have a TDMA or GSM phone. CDMA phones tend to generate less of that type of interference, but their transmissions are still detectable by rudimentary equipment.
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  #34  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:01 AM
Arnfinn Madsen Arnfinn Madsen is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(i.e. how many know that CIA are able to turn on the microphone on whatever cellular phone they would like to, and thus bug the room, at any time without the user noticing?)

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How do you know this to be true, and have you any good links for us?

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I don't have any good links, but I know it is possible. Look upon your cellular phone as a centrally controlled client, because that is what it really is. When you answer a phone call you basically send a signal to the central server cluster to open a channel through the cellular phone network. The process instructs your phone to turn on the microphone among other things. Elements of this process can be used to turn the microphone on without activating i.e. the loudspeaker or giving a ring signal. To avoid it, you need to disconnect the battery.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I am speaking of GSM-phones.

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  #35  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:05 AM
Arnfinn Madsen Arnfinn Madsen is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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However, this is detectable simply because the display of the phone will switch to the "call active" screen.

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It can be activated without this.

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Now, it's also possible that the CIA makes all cell manufacturers and service providers install a backdoor that lets them remotely activate the phone with no visible status indicators.

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Not necessary to install a backdoor. The functionality is needed for other processes and is thus already present.


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Of course, this also would be detectable, since the phone will be pumping out it's normal transmission to the nearest tower. A clock radio near your phone is enough to tip you off if you have a TDMA or GSM phone. CDMA phones tend to generate less of that type of interference, but their transmissions are still detectable by rudimentary equipment.

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Yes, you can buy a detector at price appx. $1 which you can install on your phone which makes it impossible for the phone to send information (bugging the room) without you being aware (a red light will turn on).
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  #36  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:48 AM
Arnfinn Madsen Arnfinn Madsen is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

And while elaborating on countersurveillance (you guys may be needing it some day [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), there exists also cellular phones that encrypts all sound collected from the microphone, thus making bugging the room very difficult (I don't know if CIA has cracked the algorythm or not). However, with such a phone you can only make calls to other similar phones, not to a regular phone.
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2005, 09:19 AM
elwoodblues elwoodblues is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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2) In judging how much governmental intrusion and surveillance is justified, what is important is not the increased probability that any one of us indivudually might be harmed, but that the US might suffer even 1 more such large attack.

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When you frame it like this --- it doesn't sound TOO bad, but unfortunately it isn't just one person who is harmed by a loss of civil liberties as you are suggesting.

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We have very effective...judicial and constitutional remedies if the government should be perceived by a majority to have gone too far.


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It's either unconstitutional or it isn't. Wouldn't that be judicial activism to say that it is constitutional today and then tomorrow (because a lot of people disagree) it is suddently unconstitutional.
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  #38  
Old 12-27-2005, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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We have very effective...judicial and constitutional remedies if the government should be perceived by a majority to have gone too far.
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Yeah man, thats a dangerous statement. When the MAJORITY thinks we went to far? Right now the government has a very effective propaganda system that tricks people into thinking that another attack in imminent if they dont give up all their rights.

We can fight this without changing any rights. We can fight this without destroying the constitution.
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  #39  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:01 AM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

When he tries to appoint his White House Counsel to the SCOTUS......

Oh wait, that already happened.
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  #40  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:05 AM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

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[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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Except they are more petty inconveniences which the libs think are the road to fascism, because they can't get past their selfish "My" ("my" rights) to "We" ("our" common good and defense).


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Capitalism and liberty are built on the concept of ME over we. Are you a commie now? Lenin would have loved that statement.



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Hahaha. My thoughts exactly when I read this. Of course, commies and facists have a lot in common with the concept of the State over the Individual.

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Yes, and we all know that there is nothing in the world more important than your wants and your needs. I take it then that Communism and Fascism would be acceptable provided you were in charge?
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