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#1
07-23-2005, 01:14 PM
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Calling a raise in the SB second in
I posted this in the 2+2 table thread last night but wanted to make sure others see it since I've now sobered up, I think it is important, and I saw it a lot last night.
There are times when you're in the SB, the action is to you, and you're facing a single raise. This could be an EP raise that is folded around to you, or it could be a possible steal-raise from LP. In any event, one player has raised and action is on you in the SB with BB yet to act. It is virtually never a good play to call in this position. If your hand is strong enough to see the flop against the open-raiser, you should be three-betting here everytime. Your 3-bet faces the BB with calling two cool, likely to be getting 3:1 and facing the prospect of a cap from the open-raiser. Your 3 bet makes it very difficult for BB to see a flop, and when he does make a decision to come along, he's facing a scary hand range suggested by the 3-bet from the SB and stuck between an open raiser and SB 3-bettor. The opportunity to get the hand HU, with the momentum from pre-flop play, is worth the extra small bet that 3-betting costs pre-flop. Compare 3-betting to calling the raise in the SB. You've now given the BB 5:1 odds to see the flop. BB is also closing the action so he has no fear of it getting raised behind him. He can call profitably with a very wide range of hands here looking for a favorable flop, and you now have two players who can hit instead of one. Furthermore, you will now be playing the flop and later streets against 2 players instead of HU, and both of those players have position on you throughout the hand. You also have no "intangible" advantages of momentum and the fear inspired by an SB 3-bet. It's pretty much the worst of all worlds. If you were never the first player calling a raise in the SB, you'd be making very few if any mistakes. Take this play out of your game and learn to 3-bet or fold. 
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#3
07-23-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: Calling a raise in the SB second in
[ QUOTE ]
learn to 3-bet or fold. [/ QUOTE ] Word. Rich
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#5
07-23-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: Calling a raise in the SB second in
Thanks, Catt. I have to say, I am guilty of this. (And I've read HEPFAP.)
No more. I will attempt to honor your post in the spirit in which it was given, by using it.
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#7
07-24-2005, 12:18 AM
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Re: Calling a raise in the SB second in
[ QUOTE ]
Good stuff. Straight out of HEPFAP. [/ QUOTE ] I don't remember this specifically from HEPFAP, though I don't doubt it is there. I learned this lesson primarily from posts here on 2+2 (so maybe this post will help others learn the lesson, too) and then from thinking about it a bit more away from the tables. After having learned the lesson from here, it was greatly reinforced when King Yao (a poster on these forums, primarily in HUSH) succinctly and clearly made the point in his book Weighing the Odds in Hold'Em Poker. If I remember correctly, he cites this particular error (calling a raise in the SB as the second person in a pot) as one of his enumerated 10 or 15 common mistakes in SH play. And he points out that if you see a player that routinely does this in the SB, sitting to his immediate left will substantially improve your expectation from the BB. I see this error a lot in general play, and I saw it pretty frequently at last night's 2+2 table - this is an easy error to make and a relatively easy one to correct, and we should all do so.
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#9
07-24-2005, 01:22 AM
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Re: Calling a raise in the SB second in
Just reading it last night, that's why I knew, lol.
Here: "One situation where correct little-blind play differs from big-blind play is against a possible steal-raise. Now if you are going to play (usually with a hand in Groups 1-6) you should almost always reraise. The purpose of this reraise is to drive the big blind out of the pot. However, if someone else has already called the raise, then this play is usually incorrect without an excellent hand."
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#10
07-24-2005, 01:33 AM
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Re: Calling a raise in the SB second in
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind calling in the SB with mid suited connectors (JTs, T9s)...probably go lower with a loose BB. Not sure if this is leakage or not... [/ QUOTE ] I think you should be raising or folding. You might want callers with these hands if it encouraged the pot to go multiway pre-flop (i.e., we might limp in EP hoping for callers behind), but you're only getting at most one additional caller for post-flop play, meaning the implied odds are not greatly enhanced. And by encouraging that one additional caller, you're adding one more hand that can outflop you, and potentially more incentive to open-raiser to peel the flop when you lead and BB calls the flop bet. Part of the advantage of three-betting a hand as you describe is that you can often win the pot on the flop when an A flops: you 3-bet; BB folds; CO (openraiser) calls and flop comes A83r. You bet and CO has a pretty tough call if he doesn't hold an A. If BB is in the hand, you're more likely to be up against an A (easy for BB to call A7o when you call PF; tough to do so when you 3-bet PF), and you're more likely to give CO better odds to peel.
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