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  #11  
Old 11-19-2005, 12:04 AM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
Ribbo, I used to respect you after following your posts in your own forum. At times, you supply great advice for all of us who aspire to be better than average at this game (OH8). But your arrogant replies to any critique that comes your way makes me lose most of the respect I ever had for you as a person. You might be a good, even great OH8 player, but in my opinion you are a weak discussion partner.

As for the hand in question, I would absolutely have made the call preflop (as I am a decidedly loose player preflop but an IMHO above average player postflop). The flop was great for at least half the pot and I think your raise was correct. But in a loose game, as you have stated this was a case of, I also think a 356 straight draw call was valid. K356 less so than A356 of course, as it has no chance of catching the nut low. As Mendacious pointed out before, someone might hold kk (and even a2kk), but your raise is still more than defendable. Come turn card, I think your shove was a case of disappointment-tilt; a combination of wanting to represent nut high and low, and of wanting to isolate a nut low/no high to heads up action in order to catch the deuce that could bust him. But even these things considered, it's not a terrible play, because come river card you might have one or more players quartered or worse. Considering the AA23 call on flop: would you have folded in a loose game? End note: my condoleances to a bad beat.

Good luck

[/ QUOTE ]

Earth to stupid guy.

356 had FOUR PERCENT EQUITY ON THE FLOP

How exactly is that good for a call in a loose or tight game? Of course my raise was good on the flop I had over 60% equity in a 4 handed pot. Nobody is ever going to hold KK here and see the turn that cheaply. I don't think you actually understand how rarely someone will have top set in omaha. My shove on the turn is because I still have a great hand. Omaha is a DRAWING game. Even if someone does have the straight, I still have enough equity to call, that's my whole point. I actually on the turn have twice as much equity as the guys with the straight, that means despite hitting they STILL should fold with their 12% to my 25%. If one of them fold that gives the other one odds to call.
  #12  
Old 11-19-2005, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

My friend Ribbo, the point you are arguing [ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet again I reinforce that A356 on a 47x flop with 2 to a flush out in a loose game where nobody folds, is junk. You have nothing more than a gutshot for a low half of the pot, and you have to dodge an insane amount of bullets to make your straight and have it good on the river. That's why he was 8% on the flop to win.

[/ QUOTE ] is exactly why his call was valid!!! First off he's not 8% on the flop, but actually closer to 20% against all nut hands and draws. Which in fact makes it a good call according to YOU!! Even though you were a little over 40% on the flop, their calls were justified by the implied odds in a loose game as described. Yeah it sucks loosing with a "baby monster", but be real. Don't whine when they draw out, isn't that the type of action you want? Especially since you're such a superior player after the flop.

Your Admirer
  #13  
Old 11-19-2005, 01:41 AM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
My friend Ribbo, the point you are arguing [ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet again I reinforce that A356 on a 47x flop with 2 to a flush out in a loose game where nobody folds, is junk. You have nothing more than a gutshot for a low half of the pot, and you have to dodge an insane amount of bullets to make your straight and have it good on the river. That's why he was 8% on the flop to win.

[/ QUOTE ] is exactly why his call was valid!!! First off he's not 8% on the flop, but actually closer to 20% against all nut hands and draws. Which in fact makes it a good call according to YOU!! Even though you were a little over 40% on the flop, their calls were justified by the implied odds in a loose game as described. Yeah it sucks loosing with a "baby monster", but be real. Don't whine when they draw out, isn't that the type of action you want? Especially since you're such a superior player after the flop.

Your Admirer

[/ QUOTE ]

For a start HE HAD NO IMPLIED ODDS BECAUSE EVEN WHEN HE "HIT" HE IS STILL GIVING AWAY MONEY WHEN HE BETS. At no point in the hand did K356's equity go over 13% even when he had hit. If you cannot understand equity then why are you bothering to post? My equity on the flop was 63%, this means When people call the flop they are giving me 63% of the money they put in the middle. On the turn, despite the worst card hitting I am still 25.5% equity, in a 4 handed pot this means whatever I put in on the turn I will win back plus 25.5% of what is already in the pot from the flop. K356 was 12.2% on the turn, this means when he puts another $150 in on the turn, he will get back on average 12.2% of the $750 main pot working out at $91. IMPLIED ODDS DOES NOT EXIST WHEN YOU ARE SHOVING MONEY ON EVERY STREET WAY BEHIND. What he did on the flop was call with 4% equity because he had a shot at hitting a card that gave him 12% equity. My call all in on the turn of $150 gives me 25.5% of $750 main pot which is $188. If you cannot understand that despite the worst card hitting, my hand was still profitable you really should not play the game. This shows quite how powerful my hand was on the flop, that even when all the people chasing hit their card, they still are not in a position that is particularily good.

Please stop posting comments about things you know nothing about.
  #14  
Old 11-19-2005, 01:43 AM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll point out what I see was wrong then I'll note that overall I'm a loser at PLO (due to one heck of a streak at getting unlucky in big pots--If I get beat in another one by another crazy runner runner or gutshot straight by someone only drawing to that when I've got the nuts plus good redraws I'll officially go nuts) *I will also note I'm a good winner at the rest of the games I play (7 stud, Omaha H/L and holdem)* (It doesn't make sense to me to be a winner in H/L and not in omaha without a freakishly bad run of luck?)

Anyway, here we go
Mistake 1--AA23 guy didn't raise preflop
Mistake 2--AA23 guy calling a bet and a raise with only the nut low draw and a backdoor flush draw (when it's more than possible he'll get quartered) [and it's obvious AA is beat]
Mistakes 3&4--two guys calling with a wrap when a good portion of those outs make a flush--also not realizing someone else probably has similar cards killing even more outs and potentially making another quartered pot because any straight card that hits ALSO MAKES A LOW FOR SOMEONE ELSE!
Mistake 5--CP calling two allins with only an A2--I would have been the heck out of here on the flop because a lot of people chase that nut low. Too easy for him to be quartered.
Mistake 6--fourth guy calling an allin when it's pretty freaking obvious at least one (if not more) person has the same nut straight and he has no redraws.
Mistake 7 (this is out of order) K356 guy bets with only top pair and a draw with a bunch of guys acting behind him who probably have that beat.

That turn really killed you but with the $ in and entering the pot you have to call there. Way too much equity with a set and a nut flush draw. If only the jack came first...

Although equity does go way down if someone has KK... KK usually doesn't smooth call on the flop there.

I'm sure I didn't see enough mistakes though. (I'm not counting preflop calls though)

[/ QUOTE ]

KK is very rarely going to be in the hand. Too many players like Mendacious are actually aware of how often someone flops top set. It's not nearly as often as he tries to make out.
  #15  
Old 11-19-2005, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My friend Ribbo, the point you are arguing [ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet again I reinforce that A356 on a 47x flop with 2 to a flush out in a loose game where nobody folds, is junk. You have nothing more than a gutshot for a low half of the pot, and you have to dodge an insane amount of bullets to make your straight and have it good on the river. That's why he was 8% on the flop to win.

[/ QUOTE ] is exactly why his call was valid!!! First off he's not 8% on the flop, but actually closer to 20% against all nut hands and draws. Which in fact makes it a good call according to YOU!! Even though you were a little over 40% on the flop, their calls were justified by the implied odds in a loose game as described. Yeah it sucks loosing with a "baby monster", but be real. Don't whine when they draw out, isn't that the type of action you want? Especially since you're such a superior player after the flop.

Your Admirer

[/ QUOTE ]

For a start HE HAD NO IMPLIED ODDS BECAUSE EVEN WHEN HE "HIT" HE IS STILL GIVING AWAY MONEY WHEN HE BETS. At no point in the hand did K356's equity go over 13% even when he had hit. If you cannot understand equity then why are you bothering to post? My equity on the flop was 63%, this means When people call the flop they are giving me 63% of the money they put in the middle. On the turn, despite the worst card hitting I am still 25.5% equity, in a 4 handed pot this means whatever I put in on the turn I will win back plus 25.5% of what is already in the pot from the flop. K356 was 12.2% on the turn, this means when he puts another $150 in on the turn, he will get back on average 12.2% of the $750 main pot working out at $91. IMPLIED ODDS DOES NOT EXIST WHEN YOU ARE SHOVING MONEY ON EVERY STREET WAY BEHIND. What he did on the flop was call with 4% equity because he had a shot at hitting a card that gave him 12% equity. My call all in on the turn of $150 gives me 25.5% of $750 main pot which is $188. If you cannot understand that despite the worst card hitting, my hand was still profitable you really should not play the game. This shows quite how powerful my hand was on the flop, that even when all the people chasing hit their card, they still are not in a position that is particularily good.

Please stop posting comments about things you know nothing about.

[/ QUOTE ]

  #16  
Old 11-19-2005, 03:33 PM
Mendacious Mendacious is offline
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

I assume you meant "unaware" not "aware". You will note, that I did not say what percentage of times I think KK is out there. I said that you need to factor into YOUR analysis how often YOU think KK would be out there based on how the hand was played, and IF, KK is out there MORE than 20 % of the times in this situation, the play is -EV.

What percentage of the time do you think KK is out there on this hand. That is all that matters.
  #17  
Old 11-19-2005, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

That hand was so full of error that I dont even feel like scratching the surface. Sorry I know you wanted a lengthy reply, but, the damn hand speaks for itself. Geez.


Tex

(euphoria22)
  #18  
Old 11-19-2005, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
Two points, 1: position is irrelevant in games where everyone shoves. A577 utg is just the same as A577 on the button. 2: If you want to be a profitable player you have to play very loose preflop for 1 bet and recognise every flop where you have a good draw and fold the rest. Why would I ever want to fold A577 preflop for 1 bet when I can put $200 more in post flop 4 handed against people with 4% equity on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

rimjob ribbo , how do you know youre going to be able to see the flop for 1 bet if youre calling utg?? Thats the whole thing about position if youre on the button yes you can play it for 1 bet, utg you dont know how much its gonna cost you until the blinds act.
  #19  
Old 11-19-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

Why don't you just simply ask your own mistakes? You were GAMBLING with potentially little edge on the flop, you were ENTIRELY gambling for half of it on the turn. This is not a winning player's attitude or plays, and when you win it's because you are against very poor players most of the time.

Good luck.
  #20  
Old 11-20-2005, 01:38 AM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Warrington, United Kingdom
Posts: 213
Default Re: A more retarded hand of PLO8 you wont see in a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you just simply ask your own mistakes? You were GAMBLING with potentially little edge on the flop, you were ENTIRELY gambling for half of it on the turn. This is not a winning player's attitude or plays, and when you win it's because you are against very poor players most of the time.

Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, this post is perfect for showing the ignorance of the general player in PLO8. In a 4 handed game, could you please explain how 63% equity is a "little edge" thanks. If you can successfully explain this, I am perfectly prepared to give you $5,000
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