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  #1  
Old 08-25-2005, 08:06 PM
rafct rafct is offline
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Default 88 debatable hand

This is a hand I played today while clearing the expekt bonus. The limit is 0,5/1 with a mix of tight passives and tight agressives on the tables. How would you play it? Any advice welcome, I plan to post my thoughts after some discussion.

Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

5 callers, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop (7SB, 7 players) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, check, check, MP bets, call, call, Hero calls, 2 folds

Turn (5,5 BB, 4 players) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, MP calls, call, call

River (9,5 BB, 4 players) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets!?
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2005, 08:07 PM
baronzeus baronzeus is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

you can raise preflop against a field of 6 other ppl, even oop (it's easy to checkfold on bad flops)

lead flop and hope someone raises behind you...or at least check-raise..or something...

bet/call turn

if you get raised on the turn check/call river, otherwise bet rive.r
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2005, 08:08 PM
aK13 aK13 is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

I would check/raise the flop.

That's not a good turn card to lead on (given your play).
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:28 PM
rafct rafct is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Respondendo a:</font><hr />

you can raise preflop against a field of 6 other ppl, even oop (it's easy to checkfold on bad flops)

lead flop and hope someone raises behind you...or at least check-raise..or something...

bet/call turn

if you get raised on the turn check/call river, otherwise bet rive.r

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising it from the SB would be to maximize the winnings when I hit a set I assume? Since it wont usually win by high pair against this big field and with no position. I think players will argue that by raising it preflop, your implied odds go down when you hit.
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:30 PM
baronzeus baronzeus is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

when you hit a set, your implied odds go up by a huuuuuuuuuge amount in like a 7BB pot. everyone wants a piece of that [censored].
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:36 PM
rafct rafct is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Respondendo a:</font><hr />
I would check/raise the flop.

That's not a good turn card to lead on (given your play).

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about check-raising it too but I did not think it was very good. The MP bettor has 2 late position callers. Raising makes them call anyway, and the board is very draw heavy right now. If the turn is a blank, my equity goes up a lot.
Also, why is it the turn card a bad one to lead? I understood it as a card that helped me.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:50 PM
irishpint irishpint is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

i'd check raise the flop. you dont know for sure that soeone will bet out, but with 7 players it's likely. more often than not a late position player will bet out if it's checked to him and you can face the field w/ 2 cold. A bet out gives people reason to call since they're getting decent odds and nearly everyone holds overs (to the flop and your 88)
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:55 PM
rafct rafct is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Respondendo a:</font><hr />
i'd check raise the flop. you dont know for sure that soeone will bet out, but with 7 players it's likely. more often than not a late position player will bet out if it's checked to him and you can face the field w/ 2 cold. A bet out gives people reason to call since they're getting decent odds and nearly everyone holds overs (to the flop and your 88)

[/ QUOTE ]

my line was not betting out the flop...
Also, if you check-raise you will have at least 3 callers here..
Anyway, what is the problem with seeing the turn cheap when you know a LOT of the cards that can come will be bad for you? This makes it easier when you need to throw away your hand without spending much.
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:57 PM
irishpint irishpint is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
i'd check raise the flop. you dont know for sure that soeone will bet out, but with 7 players it's likely. more often than not a late position player will bet out if it's checked to him and you can face the field w/ 2 cold. A bet out gives people reason to call since they're getting decent odds and nearly everyone holds overs (to the flop and your 88)

[/ QUOTE ]

my line was not betting out the flop...
Also, if you check-raise you will have at least 3 callers here..
Anyway, what is the problem with seeing the turn cheap when you know a LOT of the cards that can come will be bad for you? This makes it easier when you need to throw away your hand without spending much.

[/ QUOTE ]

at least 3 callers? are you talking about the specifics of this hand? i was talking in general, since our 'hero' opted to not bet or c/r but the weak c/c line. Sure here we'd have 'at least 3 callers' because of where the bet came come. But when we follow that c/r up with a turn bet we very often win the hand.
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2005, 10:02 PM
rafct rafct is offline
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Default Re: 88 debatable hand

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Respondendo a:</font><hr />
at least 3 callers? are you talking about the specifics of this hand? i was talking in general, since our 'hero' opted to not bet or c/r but the weak c/c line. Sure here we'd have 'at least 3 callers' because of where the bet came come. But when we follow that c/r up with a turn bet we very often win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember the board is very draw heavy - we will have a hard time when another spade comes on the turn, or something that makes the straight possible. I dont even think we can fold that many players since as the pot grows they will be getting odds to call anyway.
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