Weak Top Pair--Standard?

parappa · #1 11-07-2004, 05:25 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (9.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

parappa · #2 11-08-2004, 05:56 AM

.

young nut · #3 11-08-2004, 07:22 AM

In situations like this, I like to check the river. The reason being, 1) I do not like my kicker. If someone is calling me down all the way, I am not necessarily value betting this river because my kicker is crap. 2) if you do check/call, sometimes this induces a bluff bet by the other opponent with his mid pair of some sort. And if he did catch 2 pair or have a higher kicker, than it only costs you 1 bet to see.

*PS, fold Ax suited preflop in early position. Those hands just don't have enough +EV to be calling that early. The most I usually call with UTG for Ax suiteds is A 10s, and some still say that call is loose. (btw.. that is standard preflop starting hand standards straight from SSHE. Get a copy as soon as you can if you haven't read it.)

parappa · #4 11-08-2004, 07:32 AM

Thanks. The table I was at was very very loose-passive. I don't usually play Axs from early position, and will probably want to play it even less after this. It's hard for me to remember that I'm not only concerned about whether I'll get raised pre-flop, I also end up in situations like this.

Webster · #5 11-08-2004, 08:16 AM

I pretty much mirrir what young nut said. He beat me to the exact words lol.

Fiddler · #6 11-08-2004, 08:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]

*PS, fold Ax suited preflop in early position. Those hands just don't have enough +EV to be calling that early. The most I usually call with UTG for Ax suiteds is A 10s, and some still say that call is loose. (btw.. that is standard preflop starting hand standards straight from SSHE. Get a copy as soon as you can if you haven't read it.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember correctly that is the advice for tight tables with 3-5 to a flop. For loose non-aggressive tables the recommendation is to limp with Axs.

young nut · #7 11-08-2004, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

*PS, fold Ax suited preflop in early position. Those hands just don't have enough +EV to be calling that early. The most I usually call with UTG for Ax suiteds is A 10s, and some still say that call is loose. (btw.. that is standard preflop starting hand standards straight from SSHE. Get a copy as soon as you can if you haven't read it.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember correctly that is the advice for tight tables with 3-5 to a flop. For loose non-aggressive tables the recommendation is to limp with Axs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected sir, it certainly does say this. I must be playing a little too tight or playing some tigher tables that normal lately.

tiltaholic · #8 11-08-2004, 10:10 AM

hi-

I think this was well played. But it seems that he may have hit his hand. Oh well. Checking the river is weak. Next time flop more hearts.

-t

mike4066 · #9 11-08-2004, 11:07 AM

Checking the river weak? His hand is weak. I think checking this hand is fine.
The guy has called you all the way down on a nearly ragged board. He's holding a pair, maybe second pair, maybe Ax. If he's holding Ax the best you can do is hope the guy has A4 or A2 for a split.

Check the river, take the free showdown with your Pair of Aces and a kicker than can not beat anything on the board.

This is not a hand I want to pay 2 bets on the river for.
Maybe if he would have included a read on the player I could change my opinion, but not without a read.

tiltaholic · #10 11-08-2004, 11:16 AM

Hi-
So, I'm not certain I'm correct...now that that is out of the way.

The river is a clear value bet. It's heads up. Tons of worse hands will call. Read would help, but without reads you have to make the value bet. That's .5/1. Had there been 5 opponents, I'd have concerns. Against one he could have some random middle pair easily. Hell, went it gets heads up single opponents feel it is their duty to call down to "keep you honest" or "just to see what you had" with their busted draws. Clearly top pair is a good enough hand to bet the river - how high does you kicker need to be?If hero had a high pocket pair, betting is also correct.

If the action is stopped before the river, I think everyone would clearly say - bet the river. The raise taints the responses because when the raise does come - things don't look good for the hero. So, he loses this time, but that doesn't change the fact that the bet is a correct value bet. (I think)

-t