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Old 10-05-2005, 09:15 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Who can mankind have not lived without?

I have the germ of an idea. I am not sure exactly where we can take it this notion, so I will throw it out here for a starter of a discussion.

If we take a look at where we (mankind) are now - I am thinking in terms such as ethics, overall global thinking, quality of life - whatever category we deem important to include - anything material (worth it) enough to be included - looking back in history, rank a few individuals who have made things totally different than things would be had they not lived.

For example, Einstein, Jesus, Darwin. Now for the sake of discussion, I am saying the things they did, taught, discovered would not have been accomplished yet, up to this point in time (had they not lived). And no one else would have done what they did.


Then once we have a list, I want to see is : Who can be eliminated? Who would we eliminate? Who cannot be eliminated? Who should not be eliminated. Example Darwin - he doesn’t publish until the year 2010 so we don’t have him, yet. Can we do without him and still get by having never had him around. In this example, can we erase him (therefore evolution) and still not really care that much.


For these last set of questions, I am thinking in the pure form. For example Jesus - I find it hard to erase Him and still say we are just as well off or would be better off if He was erased. One can argue that man has uses his name for bad - wars , whatever. That is obvious and should not be considered in the discussion. The pure thought of the person on the list is the only thing of relevance here?

I think if this is of interest: we can post some folk, give a brief idea why you think the person should be included. Kind of a nomination for the list to be compiled to be judged then in a new post. Judged for agreement on those that can be eliminated and those that cannot.
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Old 10-05-2005, 09:22 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

I really think I am thinking more of the people who have added to thought, rather than invented something. Like I said, this is just a notion for right now. So, I don’t really want to limit the field. Any suggestions on how we can refine my notion to be of any use is welcomed.
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2005, 10:26 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

Yeah, you're gonna need to re-phrase the question, cuz there is no one person mankind could not have lived without.
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2005, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

If I understand your question, I think you're asking what ideas and things that exist now could be erased from existence, and have considerable consequences.

I think antibiotics, pasteurization, printing press(biggest one) , anesthesia, poker [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img], air conditioning [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

just too many to list.
Shooby
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2005, 12:56 AM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

[ QUOTE ]
If I understand your question, I think you're asking what ideas and things that exist now could be erased from existence, and have considerable consequences.

I think antibiotics, pasteurization, printing press(biggest one) , anesthesia, poker [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img], air conditioning [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

just too many to list.
Shooby

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats the type of answer we're looking for then cricket is top by miles.

chez
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2005, 01:29 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

I am actually thinking of People. For example I think most would agree that had Hitler never have existed our world would be off. I am thinking of the opposite. Who can we not have done without. I am not being literal here. I mean had X person not existed, our would be Y instead of Z(how it is now).

Probably thinking in terms of philosophers/religious, but not limited to those categories and not excluding scientists by any means. - Inventors, discoverers, artists whatever.
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:37 AM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

Thats most likely impossible. Whos to say that Hitler's exsistence did not prevent Stalin from taking over Europe? The point is that even the most destructive events could prevent other, more horrible events.
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Old 10-06-2005, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

Ok, then I nominate the "people" who stumbled upon the printing press, pasteurization, anestesia, antibiotics. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Shooby
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2005, 02:59 AM
jcaesar jcaesar is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

I agree. Sklansky will probably about to bust in and point out to you that chaos theory suggests that the most miniscule alteration of an initial condition can significantly change the long-term behavior of a system.

I don't think you can hold all other things equal here.
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2005, 04:03 AM
runout_mick runout_mick is offline
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Default Re: Who can mankind have not lived without?

I think that if we were to erase the existance of ANY one person in the history of mankind, ALL history after that point will have changed. EVERYONE has an ifluence on all around them, and the absence of this influence will alter every occurence thereafter.

Person "A" never met person "B" as he "should have" as person "A" has been "erased". Person "B" never influnces preson "C" as he should have because of the lack of person "A"'s presence.

By the time we get to person "X", he's no longer making his revolutionary discovery, and the entire history of mankind has been altered.

All people have been "key" influences in the history of mankind. Change one, change all...
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